Jump to content
ilovesarah

How hard is it to get make over 150K after graduation?

Recommended Posts

Please explain how using completely unreliable methods of questionable validity such as interviews achieves this aim.

I think there's the potential to get more sociopathic with interviews as it rewards the better liars.

 

I agree completely. I'm supported by the 100% of law firms that don't use interviews to select their employees. It's completely unreliable and lawyers have no capacity to detect sociopaths and liars.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree completely. I'm supported by the 100% of law firms that don't use interviews to select their employees. It's completely unreliable and lawyers have no capacity to detect sociopaths and liars.

 

You're closer to the truth than you realize, unfortunately. I'm speaking to Psychopaths here. Just because we believe that our judgement of character in an interview is accurate doesn't make it so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please explain how using completely unreliable methods of questionable validity such as interviews achieves this aim.

 

As an example, Osgoode looks at significant volunteer experience. I know kids that are off to an African orphanage or some other godforsaken place for a year or more actually giving a crap about other human beings. Contrast that with the kid who's goal in life is to drive a Beamer!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Law school psychopath: http://canlii.ca/t/2f76p

 

Might have been able to filter that one out with an interview, who knows?

 

Psychopath commonly refers to antisocial personality disorder. This fellow had schizoid features. Totally different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bet some of his classmates from Western in 2007 probably referred to him as "psycho".

 

Right. A pejorative and colloquial use of psychotic, not psychopath. Given schizoid features tend towards psychotic features it would be an offensive, but correct use.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for teaching me a much-needed lesson in psychiatry. Up until now, I thought that when people called someone a psycho, they were making a formal diagnosis. I guess it was just pejorative, colloquial and offensive.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

damn, are you serious?

 

In government you only make above $120k if you are senior management: http://www.justice.g...ecru/sb-pa.html

 

There aren't that many positions.

 

In Vancouver big law (if there is such a thing) you have to be 7th year call + to make over $150k.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In government you only make above $120k if you are senior management: http://www.justice.g...ecru/sb-pa.html

 

There aren't that many positions.

 

In Vancouver big law (if there is such a thing) you have to be 7th year call + to make over $150k.

 

I guess that makes sense. I was aware that govt jobs pay significantly less than Bay St. but didn't think the difference would be this significant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Factor in the value of a government pension though and you add another $20-30k per annum.

 

True. Whereas poor private sector me gets that extra cashola to buy a home in Vancouver. I want my money up front. GIMME!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Factor in the value of a government pension though and you add another $20-30k per annum.

Not necessarily that much. For Ontario MAG, if you're in the pension plan, the employer matches your contributions. The contribution amounts are fixed at $3200 on the first $50K of income and then 9.5% thereafter. So if you're a fifth year call at MAG making $100K (which is roughly where you'd be at that point), then the employer's contribution to your pension is $7950.

 

So to hit $20K in employer pension contributions, you'd have to be making $227000. Only the Deputy Attorney General himself makes that much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an example, Osgoode looks at significant volunteer experience. I know kids that are off to an African orphanage or some other godforsaken place for a year or more actually giving a crap about other human beings. Contrast that with the kid who's goal in life is to drive a Beamer!

 

The only difference between the guy who goes to volunteer in Africa for a year and me: my parents can't afford to send me to Africa for a year.

  • Like 14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vancouver's cost of living might be astronomical but a legal income here is rather underwhelming. The poster is correct that you will need 7+ years at a large firm to make $150,000+ on average and that's a maybe depending on who you are. That said, an entrepreneurial rainmaker type of a lawyer with time, contacts and persistence COULD make more - possibly considerably more - at a smaller firm or on his/her own depending on the field. Unfortunately, most of us are not that type of a lawyer and legal training is not conducive to developing such skills. Law is not a quick road to riches today but then it never was. I recently was reading an article about legal practice in mid-late 19th Century England and it appears that the Bar was flooded with new lawyers at that time which caused almost 2/3 of the profession to have to supplement their income from other sources. It was so unlucrative that it became an unsuitable profession for younger sons of the gentry who needed a professional income to keep up their social position.

 

Young lawyer then as now were not rolling in money as indicated by Gilbert & Sullivan:

 

"When I, good friends, was call'd to the bar

I'd an appetite fresh and hearty

But I was, as many young barristers are

An impecunious party

I'd a swallow-tail coat of a beautiful blue

And a brief which I bought of a booby

A couple of shirts, and a collar or two

And a ring that looked like a ruby

 

He'd a couple of shirts, and a collar or two

And a ring that look'd like a ruby

 

At Westminister Hall I danc'd a dance

Like a semi-despondent fury

For I tho't I never should hit on a chance

Of addressing a British jury

But I soon got tired of third-class journeys

And dinners of bread and water

So I fell in love with a rich attorney's

Elderly, ugly daughter."

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear OP,

 

If you want to make money speculate, scam, or inherit, but stop thinking about becoming a lawyer.

 

I am one of the top paid associates for my year call in Vancouver and can afford to buy a dilapidated shack somewhere not overly desirable.

 

I actually adore law, but the practice of law is grueling. I think about leaving law for various assorted reasons unrelated to law, but somehow intrinsically related to the practice of law at least once every two to three months AND I'm only a junior associate. I have a friend whose job it is (when called upon) to remind me I like law. I love the buzz I get when I solve a really complex issue or tease apart a delicate problem. I can't imagine someone who didn't like law making it through the first five years of practice--the money just isn't enough.

 

Srsly.

 

~an

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In government you only make above $120k if you are senior management: http://www.justice.g...ecru/sb-pa.html

 

There aren't that many positions.

 

The real key for government work isn't so much the salary, but the benefits. And I'm not just talking about the vested defined benefit pension. If you go on to work as counsel for DFAIT (or whatever they're calling it these days), you accrue significant benefits from living abroad (allowances, utility benefits, COLA, cheap housing etc).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The real key for government work isn't so much the salary, but the benefits. And I'm not just talking about the vested defined benefit pension. If you go on to work as counsel for DFAIT (or whatever they're calling it these days), you accrue significant benefits from living abroad (allowances, utility benefits, COLA, cheap housing etc).

 

While I'm sure living abroad working for DFAIT can accumulate some cash, government is notoriously stingy when it comes to benefits (other than pension).

 

Reading this thread I think a lot of people have some serious misconceptions about how lucrative the practice of law is. Bay Street is only a tiny minority of the work lawyers do, people...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×