17 replies to this topic

[Hymens]

Hi!

Does anyone have information on how various law schools treat failed and retaken courses? I know UVic averages the failed grade and the retake, but I couldn't find anything about what U of T or Osgoode do.

Last year I had 3 A's (in a 9 credit, 6 credit and 3 credit class), one B in a 3 credit class, and an F in 6 credit class.

You're allowed to retake courses at YorkU, and only the retake is recorded in your transcript (the first registering as a "no grade reported").

If I retake my failed class, is the grade I receive grouped with my second year or the year that I retake the class? I assume it will be the latter -- but if it isn't, then it would be great for me It would make my second year GPA a 3.8

Thanks!

[Bonin18]

Unfortunately it will be the latter. You'll have 6 credits at 0.0 in your second year. Not to worry though. There is plenty of time to ensure that the rest of your transcript is sparkling before you apply to LS

[whereverjustice]

I'm not sure Bonin is correct, here. When I was at Osgoode, I was a student ambassador and was around the admissions staff a lot. This kind of question came up frequently, and the answer was: "When it comes to retakes, we use the policy of your home institution. So if your university reports a failing grade and a passing grade on the retake, those will both be considered. But if it's a situation like here at York, where the retake actually displaces the failing grade on your transcript, then we only consider the latter."

Might want to check with Osgoode to see if this has changed, but I don't see how OLSAS can even be aware of your failing grade, if it's showing up as NGR. They don't get any info that isn't on the transcript.

[tng11]

whereverjustice, on 14 February 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

Might want to check with Osgoode to see if this has changed, but I don't see how OLSAS can even be aware of your failing grade, if it's showing up as NGR. They don't get any info that isn't on the transcript.

Retaken courses at York show the letter grade of the original course plus "NCR" beside it. The retaken grade only displaces the original grade for the purposes of calculating the degree GPA, but both attempts will show on your transcript. OLSAS factors this into the overall GPA calculation, in the year that the failed grade occurred, and the retake will factor into that year's GPA.

So unfortunately OP, you will have a 0.0 for 6 credits in the current year, and if you retake it next year, if you get an A, that will be in next year's GPA calculation for OLSAS, but your York degree GPA will have the 0.0 removed and it won't affect your honours/designations (e.g. Dean's List, Latin honours.)

[muffins]

That is so painful.

[Hymens]

Thanks so much for the responses! I did more searching around and found this from LSAC:

"The original grade for a repeated course when the transcript does not show both the grade and the units for the original attempt. The total number of credits assigned to these grades will appear on the applicant's academic summary, but will not be included in the GPA calculation."

So I guess, since YorkU reports the original grade, and the Original grade being an F, LSAC gives me a 0.0

How important is cGPA for schools like U of T or Osgoode, who consider the best 2 or 3 years for admissions?

Also a bit unrelated: Does anyone know how various schools look at students taking 5 years of undergraduate studies instead of 4?

[venividivici]

Hymens, on 14 February 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

Hi!

Does anyone have information on how various law schools treat failed and retaken courses? I know UVic averages the failed grade and the retake, but I couldn't find anything about what U of T or Osgoode do.

Last year I had 3 A's (in a 9 credit, 6 credit and 3 credit class), one B in a 3 credit class, and an F in 6 credit class.

You're allowed to retake courses at YorkU, and only the retake is recorded in your transcript (the first registering as a "no grade reported").

If I retake my failed class, is the grade I receive grouped with my second year or the year that I retake the class? I assume it will be the latter -- but if it isn't, then it would be great for me It would make my second year GPA a 3.8

Thanks!

I'm at York now and I know you can petition to get the F completely removed from your transcript if you have a good reason for it. There will be no history of you taking the course if the petition goes through.

[whereverjustice]

Hymens, on 14 February 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

So I guess, since YorkU reports the original grade, and the Original grade being an F, LSAC gives me a 0.0

Are you applying in the US? LSAC has nothing to do with Canadian schools, except for LSAT score reporting.

[KER_2012]

venividivici, on 14 February 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

I'm at York now and I know you can petition to get the F completely removed from your transcript if you have a good reason for it. There will be no history of you taking the course if the petition goes through.

I've tried to do this. You need a very good reason, such as:
1. A close family member died
2. I was in the hospital for several months

I tried to petition with different reasoning and was literally laughed at.

Edit: As whereverjustice mentioned you need to look at what OLSAS does with NGR on your transcript, that's what schools in Ontario will see. Don't worry about what LSAC says, unless you're applying to US schools.

Edited by KER_2012, 14 February 2012 - 12:18 PM.

[Hymens]

whereverjustice, on 14 February 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

Are you applying in the US? LSAC has nothing to do with Canadian schools, except for LSAT score reporting.

Woosh, maybe I don't deserve to go to law school. I'll try to find more relevant information.

But as for York's policy, I think Tng is right. York only displaces the grade for their own GPA calculations. The original grade is still visible for all the world to see.

I'll try to find out how OLSAS treats it.

@Ker,

I think you may be right. I believe they are lenient when it comes to dropping first year courses. An academic advisor said it happens all the time: students petition on the basis that it was first year, and they were unprepared for the trials and tribulations of university.

[meager]

I actually inquired about the same thing back in October when I was applying to law schools. This is the response given to me by the Office of the Assistant Dean:

"Any grade that appears on the transcript will be factored into the GPA. If there are two scores for each of the repeated courses, then they both get counted. If one replaces the other, and only one shows, then that one counts.

As for summer grades, we factor everything into the overall GPA. When we calculate best two years, we take the highest years (fall/winter/summer in that order makes up one year). We require 60 credits for the best two, so if you are short, we would then take your best three. Hope this helps."

In my case, I had two D's (50-59% grade) and I needed at least a 60 in each class to graduate with honors, so I'm retaking those two classes this term -- my second term of 4th year.

[Hymens]

meager, on 14 February 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

I actually inquired about the same thing back in October when I was applying to law schools. This is the response given to me by the Office of the Assistant Dean:

"Any grade that appears on the transcript will be factored into the GPA. If there are two scores for each of the repeated courses, then they both get counted. If one replaces the other, and only one shows, then that one counts.

As for summer grades, we factor everything into the overall GPA. When we calculate best two years, we take the highest years (fall/winter/summer in that order makes up one year). We require 60 credits for the best two, so if you are short, we would then take your best three. Hope this helps."

In my case, I had two D's (50-59% grade) and I needed at least a 60 in each class to graduate with honors, so I'm retaking those two classes this term -- my second term of 4th year.

I understand. It appears that my failed grade in second year will be counted.

[Hymens]

KER_2012, on 14 February 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

I've tried to do this. You need a very good reason, such as:
1. A close family member died
2. I was in the hospital for several months

I tried to petition with different reasoning and was literally laughed at.

Edit: As whereverjustice mentioned you need to look at what OLSAS does with NGR on your transcript, that's what schools in Ontario will see. Don't worry about what LSAC says, unless you're applying to US schools.

My grandfather died during second year (2 months before final exams). He wasn't very close to me so I'm not sure how I would feel using it as an excuse to drop the grade.

[bustle]

I have a pretty low cGPA according to OLSAS because I very stupidly took 15 credits in the summer before I started my undergrad. Being a total idiot, I then decided that I wanted to have one final hurrah before university, and didn't attend the classes or hand in any assignments halfway through the summer semester. I got straight D+s in three courses, and retook them in the following F/W semesters. They show up on my York transcript as SU courses NGR D+ and OLSAS has used them in the calculation of of my GPA.

I highly recommend you at least try to petition the failed course because it can pull down your weighed cGPA dramatically. Even if your excuse is that you were adjusting to the responsibilities of undergrad, at least TRY. Then if they laugh and toss out your petition, you won't be burying your GPA and "what if I had petitioned?!!!" sorrow in cupcakes like I have.

[KER_2012]

Hymens, on 14 February 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

I think you may be right. I believe they are lenient when it comes to dropping first year courses. An academic advisor said it happens all the time: students petition on the basis that it was first year, and they were unprepared for the trials and tribulations of university.

That may very well be true, the courses i had looked into petitioning were not first year courses. Do keep in mind that there's a deadline for course petitions, I think you can only submit them up to one year after the course has ended, but double check that.

Hymens, on 14 February 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

My grandfather died during second year (2 months before final exams). He wasn't very close to me so I'm not sure how I would feel using it as an excuse to drop the grade.

I'm not encouraging you the stretch the truth to work in your favour, but you certainly would be the first person who did.

[Bonin18]

Something to add to this thread is that if you fail an undergraduate class and choose to retake it before applying to schools that use a drop system to calculate an adjusted grade point average (uvic, u of m, UNB), they will also use both grades and drop the failed class if it happens to qualify. So yeah, just like with Olsas, retaking a class will not erase your failed grade, but, if your applying to a school that uses a drop system, it may be erased as one of your "lowest droppable grades".

[tng11]

Just a little side comment to the OP:

Don't let the F dash your dreams of law school. You're obviously a good student if you can get As in a large portion of your credits, and we have our bad days sometimes. Yes, it will affect your cGPA significantly, but that's why the Best 2 or Best 3 system at most law schools is awesome.

I made it into both schools you mentioned with 2 disastrous grades in my 3rd year, of all times (granted they weren't Fs, but were 2 of the lowest grades I had ever seen in my life.) Plenty of second chances come along.

[meager]

^Making the LSAT your bitch also helps

Edited by meager, 15 February 2012 - 07:41 PM.