21 replies to this topic

[Jax29]

Hey guys,
So I have applied for Ontario law schools this year like many of you and unfortunately I am constantly swamped with questions of "Did you get in, Did you hear yet? Anything from law schools?!?!!" by pretty much all my friends and even family members. How do you guys deal with it? I feel like it just adds so much stress that I am even nervous about seeing certain people because I KNOW they will ask the question. I tell myself so what I haven't heard yet, it is still early and I have great stats but no matter what I tell myself I still get that earth shattering feeling of "what in the world am I going to do if I don't get in...how will I face all of these people?"
Any advice, comments or similar stories would be really appreciated.

[redlead]

Most of them have no idea how admissions decisions work. Something along the lines of "dude, it's only February! They probably haven't even gotten to my file yet - they're not going to get through 3000 applications in two weeks" usually works. And it's also true. Or you can bore them to death by doing it this way - "well with 3000 applications, 10 minutes to read each file, that's 30000 minutes of work. 500 hours for an admissions committee, working 8 hours a day, that's 62 days. 20 working days a month, so give it a minimum of 3 months before they're able to read all the files, and that's with no coffee breaks."

Edited by redlead, 09 February 2012 - 09:33 AM.

[yeahman]

I've faced 2 years of this...it can be pretty demoralizing, especially at the prospect of a third. You have to make light of your situation. Most people do not go to professional school and would lucky to even have the prospect of doing so. As such, you are in a privileged position to begin with and there should be no shame in "facing people" should you not get in. There are much worse things in life. The people close to you will admire and respect you regardless, and even more so if they know you persevered to achieve your goal.

[Abe91]

Wow, I am in the exact same position, Jax29! I know I have pretty good stats, but I still have that sinking feeling. The wait is just pure torture. I work in a law firm, so naturally I get asked more frequently than I would if I worked elsewhere. I just tell people, "I have good stats, I should get into at least one school". I get bombarded with these questions all the time, and I would just love if I can say, "Oh, well I got in X, and I'm waiting on X and X". However, I know that if i don't get in, I would probably apply again next year since I'm relatively young, and wouldn't really lose that much (maybe a little confidence, but I'd get it back).
Keep your chin up, and know that we all did hard work to get where we are now and we should be proud of the small accomplishments along the way (studying for lsat, applying, taking the lsat, etc.).

[Diplock]

Sorry, but the best advice I could have offered you is already dated - don't tell them you're applying at all.

Since that ship has already sailed, your best bet is honesty. Tell everyone who asks "dude, I'm stressed already, but when I get in I'll tell you and everyone else, so please stop asking." Hopefully your real friends will spread the word and you won't have to say it more than a few times.

Lesson for the future, btw. Applies to a lot of things in life, including job applications, trying to conceive a baby, etc. Telling folks what you're trying to do in advance doesn't help. It's a psychological crutch that makes it realer for you in the short-term (as your parents go on about how their kid is going to be a lawyer) but the debt comes back with interest when you're just heaping pressure on yourself down the road.

[orion88]

Tell them the truth...getting into law school is an incredibly competitive process, and you always have the option of re-writing the LSAT if you don't get in this year. It's not as if you only have one chance to apply...or just tell them to piss off

[Abe91]

Diplock, on 09 February 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Lesson for the future, btw. Applies to a lot of things in life, including job applications, trying to conceive a baby, etc. Telling folks what you're trying to do in advance doesn't help. It's a psychological crutch that makes it realer for you in the short-term (as your parents go on about how their kid is going to be a lawyer) but the debt comes back with interest when you're just heaping pressure on yourself down the road.

I've never thought about it that way, but you're a 100% right. Most of us long to be perceived by our friends and family as accomplished and successful, and I think we feel that if we inform others that we applied, they will understand it as tantamount to the statement, "I'm going to law school in the fall".

Well put, Diplock.

[orion88]

Diplock, on 09 February 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Sorry, but the best advice I could have offered you is already dated - don't tell them you're applying at all.

Since that ship has already sailed, your best bet is honesty. Tell everyone who asks "dude, I'm stressed already, but when I get in I'll tell you and everyone else, so please stop asking." Hopefully your real friends will spread the word and you won't have to say it more than a few times.

Lesson for the future, btw. Applies to a lot of things in life, including job applications, trying to conceive a baby, etc. Telling folks what you're trying to do in advance doesn't help. It's a psychological crutch that makes it realer for you in the short-term (as your parents go on about how their kid is going to be a lawyer) but the debt comes back with interest when you're just heaping pressure on yourself down the road.

I like the pressure personally, I've always found that it motivates me to push myself, failure ends up having such a high price that its unacceptable, and if you do fail its your own fault for being over-confident in the first place. But if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen right...

[RonnieRockstar]

Diplock, on 09 February 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Sorry, but the best advice I could have offered you is already dated - don't tell them you're applying at all.

Since that ship has already sailed, your best bet is honesty. Tell everyone who asks "dude, I'm stressed already, but when I get in I'll tell you and everyone else, so please stop asking." Hopefully your real friends will spread the word and you won't have to say it more than a few times.

I agree with Dip. I always kept my application process a secret. Even as I was studying rigorously for the LSAT, I never told people what I was studying for (except my mom and a handful of very close friends because I needed them for moral support along the way).

For most other people (ie, coworkers, employers, acquaintances etc.) who casually ask me what my future plans are, I just told them, 'I have plans, but I'm not certain if they'll work out yet. I'd rather keep them to myself' Sure enough, there will be those who try to dig deeper. I was always honest in saying 'I don't want to run around telling everyone about my plans and end up not following them. I'll be the laughing stock of the town.' People will understand and they will appreciate your humbleness.

I geuss my advice isn't very relevant now. But moving forward, you learn from your mistakes. I once read a psychological study about how telling others what your goals are can often make you less likely to achieve them. The psychologist who did the study wrote that many people who tell others their goals receive a false sense of hope, as if their goals are materializing. This false sense of hope can sometimes cause people to let their guard down and not work as hard to achieve those goals.

[Abe91]

RonnieRockstar, on 09 February 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

I once read a psychological study about how telling others what your goals are can often make you less likely to achieve them. The psychologist who did the study wrote that many people who tell others their goals receive a false sense of hope, as if their goals are materializing. This false sense of hope can sometimes cause people to let their guard down and not work as hard to achieve those goals.

Haha, I am a prime example of this study. I wanted to run the Good Life half-marathon this coming May. I told some family members, but then stopped myself from telling co-workers and friends. I realized that I might not do it, and I don't deserve others' admiration for something that I didn't do yet.

I still would love to do it, but I find myslef way too busy to train. Oh well, at least I didn't tell everyone.

[Hegdis]

It's a double edged sword. On the one hand the unshakeable confidence of your friends is flattering ("obviously you'll get in!") but on the other, it's very isolating (easy for them to say and hard for you to live with).

I think honesty is best. You are stressed and don't want to talk about it.

[muffins]

I went through this last year (failed admissions cycle). It is difficult, but I think your character comes through when you take a year to devote entirely to getting into law school. You will also, probably, realise how terrible the job market is and how worthless a BA is. Especially if it is something that employers see as being worthless: political science, history, philosophy, english etc.

[Mal]

Diplock, on 09 February 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Sorry, but the best advice I could have offered you is already dated - don't tell them you're applying at all.

Since that ship has already sailed, your best bet is honesty. Tell everyone who asks "dude, I'm stressed already, but when I get in I'll tell you and everyone else, so please stop asking." Hopefully your real friends will spread the word and you won't have to say it more than a few times.

Lesson for the future, btw. Applies to a lot of things in life, including job applications, trying to conceive a baby, etc. Telling folks what you're trying to do in advance doesn't help. It's a psychological crutch that makes it realer for you in the short-term (as your parents go on about how their kid is going to be a lawyer) but the debt comes back with interest when you're just heaping pressure on yourself down the road.

This is totally true.

What is even more annoying is when you tell your parents and they spread it around to your entire family (despite you repeatedly saying that you want it kept private). This comes back pretty hard if you do fail to get in or get the job or whatever.

[Denning Jr]

Diplock, on 09 February 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Sorry, but the best advice I could have offered you is already dated - don't tell them you're applying at all.

Since that ship has already sailed, your best bet is honesty. Tell everyone who asks "dude, I'm stressed already, but when I get in I'll tell you and everyone else, so please stop asking." Hopefully your real friends will spread the word and you won't have to say it more than a few times.

Lesson for the future, btw. Applies to a lot of things in life, including job applications, trying to conceive a baby, etc. Telling folks what you're trying to do in advance doesn't help. It's a psychological crutch that makes it realer for you in the short-term (as your parents go on about how their kid is going to be a lawyer) but the debt comes back with interest when you're just heaping pressure on yourself down the road.

Unfortunately, once you actually get into school it doesn't let up. "So are you a lawyer yet?", "Do you have an articling position?", "How did exams go?". People like to ask questions to show that they are interested, and more cynically to impress you with their knowledge of your field. It's hard to hold it against them, but when one or more of these questions bring up some bitterness it's also hard to not hate them just a little for asking. There's a reason it's against LS-etiquette to ask about grades; pretty much everyone is at least a little bitter about them.

muffins, on 09 February 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

I went through this last year (failed admissions cycle). It is difficult, but I think your character comes through when you take a year to devote entirely to getting into law school. You will also, probably, realise how terrible the job market is and how worthless a BA is. Especially if it is something that employers see as being worthless: political science, history, philosophy, english etc.

BA's aren't worthless, they just don't entitle you to a job like a career-tailored degree does. My GF went through the same problem looking for a job after graduation, and found herself competing for positions that only required highschool. The real problem is a lack of experience. Once you solve that the BA actually opens a lot more doors for you.

[carmine]

I know this may not help but to be honest for me the first time i wrote my LSAT i was annoyed by so many people who I didnt even know asking me how I did etc.
So when I wrote it a 2nd time and applied I didnt tell anyone, except my parents.
I just felt that its better to keep some things private and then once the good news come to release that information because a lot of people talk and nobody likes the negative energy some people can give off!

[marie03]

I told my co-workers, close friends and family that I am applying because the LSAT has consumed my life for the past year and its hard not to talk about it. I let them know that I'm unsure if I'll actually get in though because of my poor LSAT scores. That way I won't be embarrassed to tell them I didn't get in because I already told them I'm not confident about getting in. I applied to occupational therapy school two years ago and didn't get in, so telling people I didn't get into a program AGAIN is somewhat embarrassing.

Muffins: I totally understand devoting yourself to law school for a year because of a poor job market. I have spent the past 2 years doing work I didn't need a degree for. One of my biggest regrets is not doing my undergrad in a career-orientated program.

[aidie]

Jax29 I feel your pain. Pretty much everyone in my life, from those nearest and dearest to me, to the most remote coworkers or acquaintances ask me repeatedly. It's not like I chose to tell them, but I had asked my boss from work for a letter, and he sort of spread the news that I was applying around the whole office. Now they frequently say "Weeelllll? Any news?" I just think, what will I tell all these people if I don't get in this year?

I guess many of us are in the same in boat. The added stress from friends and family, and the year spent working in a job that you hate and for which you do not need a degree, are all just a part of the wider "experience" that is law school applications. Lets hope it pays off

Edited by aidie, 09 February 2012 - 12:35 PM.

[Woo Harris]

Diplock, on 09 February 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Lesson for the future, btw. Applies to a lot of things in life, including job applications, trying to conceive a baby, etc. Telling folks what you're trying to do in advance doesn't help. It's a psychological crutch that makes it realer for you in the short-term (as your parents go on about how their kid is going to be a lawyer) but the debt comes back with interest when you're just heaping pressure on yourself down the road.

Learned this lesson when I had my road test for my driver's license in high school. Several of my friends who were awful drivers had gotten their G1. I was certainly not a great driver, but was a safe driver, so I figured I'd pass since my friend who'd lost control of his vehicle after 1 month of having his license had passed...

Needless to say, my nerves mixed with not being a great driver, amplified by the frosty reception of the Tester led me to make some dumb mistakes and I failed the test. I did not speak a word of the re-take that I scheduled and passed that.

I now handle pressure much better than I did when I was 16, but I still remember that lesson and I think its a good one that Diplock is pointing out. You are already putting enough pressure on yourself to succeed, so there is nothing wrong with keeping those goals guarded and waiting for the right time to reveal them.

[bustle]

Denning Jr, on 09 February 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

BA's aren't worthless, they just don't entitle you to a job like a career-tailored degree does. My GF went through the same problem looking for a job after graduation, and found herself competing for positions that only required highschool. The real problem is a lack of experience. Once you solve that the BA actually opens a lot more doors for you.

+1, absolutely. I did what should have been my 4th year of undergrad as a part time student over two years in order to work full-time as an administrative assistant. After graduating university, I applied for a lot of jobs (market research, office admin, executive assistant, etc) and landed so many interviews (and 3 good job offers) that I was super impressed with myself. You need experience in whatever field you want to move into, but sometimes, you won't even know what you want to do. With a degree in the social sciences, I didn't have a profession, but I had excellent MS Office proficiency. Seriously, I'm currently interviewing for a rather well paying position in an industry I have absolutely no experience in because I'm highly proficient in making pre-timed presentations and can work a spreadsheet like nobody's business. My suggestion to humanities/social science graduates is to apply for every single entry-level position they can find, and outline their hard skills. You can type 65 wpm? That should be on your resume. You coordinated workflow for a research cluster? Put that on your resume. Those are all highly sought after skills.

[bustle]

Jax29, I'm going through the same thing and this is my second cycle. I actually find it rather demoralizing every time I'm asked what schools I've applied to, what I scored on my LSAT, and then the inevitable, "Why haven't you heard back yet?"

When I first applied to law school (2009), I was pretty open about the process. That left me open to a lot of questions and I shit you not, friends writing things like "So-and-so got into Osgoode, why haven't you heard back yet?" on a weekly basis. Then my parents would see that and call me asking the same questions.

This cycle, I didn't give anyone details. To my family and closest friends, I merely said that "I applied to law school and will let you all know immediately when I hear back. No questions." So far, everyone but my brother has respected this request, although even after I did hear back from a school, my brother jumped on the "but there are no jobs in law right now!" train. People project their own anxiety onto you and it's just a matter of playing it cool to calm them down, even while your inner monologue is going nuts.

[Jax29]

Thank you everyone for your much appreciated advice. Having a community such as this where we can offer one another support and advice is truly comforting. Thanks guys!

[Denning Jr]

bustle, on 10 February 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

...I had excellent MS Office proficiency...

Just a complete aside, I am absolutely shocked at how many people have made it to law school with exactly ZERO capability in MS Word. Most people might as well be generating documents in wordpad. It's mind boggling.

If you're in law school, or going to law school, you should understand how to use styles. You should know how to use different levels "Heading" styles to auto-generate table of contents. You should know how to use track changes. If you don't know these things, you should drop everything you're doing right now, find an online tutorial, and teach yourself how. It will take you max 20 minutes.

If you're in second or third year law, you should probably also know how to cross-reference footnotes. McGill Guide requires you to cross-reference all subsequent citations for a case back to the initial note it appears at. You can either waste hours of your time backtracking to make sure all these cross references are correct, or use Insert>Cross-Reference as you go then just update them all with a keystroke.


There is also absolutely no reason that you should be using iWorks. Office is superior in almost every way, and there are probably five firms in the entire country that aren't using it. Using iWorks in law school just means you'll be relearning how to do everything in Office the moment you start work at a firm.