118 replies to this topic

[AlbertaFem]

How about dresses for women? I've seen a few female lawyers rocking the a dress, but I've also seen some really poor fitting 'suits' (aka a random jacket paired with random pants).

[LikeThat12]

Background - I have been blessed with an irregularly-shaped physique...

Oddly-Specific-Concern - As of now, I don't own too many suits. My latest suit (purchased 1.5 years ago) meets the standard conventions of a modern suit (2-button, thin lapels, 2 vents, short jacket). Unfortunately, since it is a retail suit, I purchased a size that does not permit me to comfortably button-up the suit (no where close). The tradeoff was that had I gone with one size larger, the jacket would not have been fitted and the shoulders would look box-y and stick out. You can't see my dresshirt sticking out if you look at my profile, but if you were to ask me to button-up my suit, I wouldn't be able to help you. Can I get away with wearing this suit to the upcoming firm meet and greets for recently accepted students or should I look into buying a custom-fitted suit?

I was hoping to get away with this suit for one night and investing in some custom ones after 1L (when I magically transform into Brad Pitt).

Edited by LikeThat12, 27 February 2012 - 10:41 PM.

[Radfahrer]

LikeThat12, on 27 February 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

I was hoping to get away with this suit for one night and investing in some custom ones after 1L (when I magically transform into Brad Pitt).

You're fine, at the last event not only did I wear a suit that was too big and sloppy for me, it was made of polyester and you could see some glue coming out of the seams. To make matters worse it was a 3-button black suit, so it looked like I was going to a funeral (I guess you could say I was in some way, as Bay St. firms are where some people's souls go to die.)

Going custom might be a good idea for you. I had a lot of difficulty finding something off the rack that would match me as I am both short and slim with bulky athletic thighs/legs, so often it was either one of the pants or jacket that didn't fit right, and stores obviously don't let you mix and match. I managed to find one last weekend, but I literally circled in and out of dozens of stores before I found the suit for me.

[PoopypantsMcgee]

Readers of this topic may be helped by this website. It has been of use to me many times:
http://putthison.com/

I'm new here, are we allowed to link websites like this?

[Morgan]

PoopypantsMcgee, on 09 March 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Readers of this topic may be helped by this website. It has been of use to me many times:
http://putthison.com/

I'm new here, are we allowed to link websites like this?

Yeah random blogs are ok.

[PoopypantsMcgee]

Thank you.

[Lord Denning]

A word of warning about moving upmarket and trying to learn about how to dress as a man: It's tough to go back.

I went into Harry Rosen looking for a winter jacket. I tried on an awesome jacket made by Boss. It was $800, on sale from 1000 or 1100. I tried it on and for the first time I felt like I had walked out of a fashion magazine. It fit that well. Both the people I was shopping with said it looked amazing before I could say anything.

I decided to try to find a knockoff. But after the Boss jacket, everything was as unstructured as a shower curtain draped over the shoulders of an orangutan. I spent 3 weekends trying to find a jacket that mimicked the Boss one. Finally I found one made by some company nobody has ever heard of for $135. I bought it. All of the buttons have since fallen off, and I've sown them back on. It's a decent looking jacket - I've gotten complements on it - but it's still not the same. There's just something about doing a button check before you leave the house that takes the joy out of it.

This extends to anything nice that you try on or buy. I managed to pick up a Canali dress shirt for $75, and learned that Canali fits me perfectly. Canali shirts are also $280.00. So I go back to my dress shirt from Sears and I notice that it billows like a goddamned parachute. And the collar is narrow spread, so I have to tie a schoolboy knot. And the fabric feels cheap, and why the hell is it so long? etc etc.

The same thing happens with suits. Wear a proper one and suddenly you notice how on your old suit, the armholes are so low you feel like flying squirrel when you try to reach for anything. And the arms are too long on the suit, and it appears to have been cut to fit a refrigerator. Also the shoulders are too padded, making you feel like you have time-traveled here from the 80s. The pants are high rise as f#$% and you have multiple breaks because you had never heard of a "half-break" when you took them to the tailor.

Then you look down...

Square toes.

Edited by Lord Denning, 20 March 2012 - 10:35 PM.

[iheartbooks]

Lord Denning, on 20 March 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

A word of warning about moving upmarket and trying to learn about how to dress as a man: It's tough to go back.

Totally accurate, and true for women as well.

[Denning Jr]

Lord Denning, on 20 March 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

A word of warning about moving upmarket and trying to learn about how to dress as a man: It's tough to go back.

I went into Harry Rosen looking for a winter jacket. I tried on an awesome jacket made by Boss. It was $800, on sale from 1000 or 1100. I tried it on and for the first time I felt like I had walked out of a fashion magazine. It fit that well. Both the people I was shopping with said it looked amazing before I could say anything.

...so I have to tie a schoolboy knot. And the fabric feels cheap, and why the hell is it so long? etc etc.

So true, so true. I can't even wear my Moore's suit from 1L. It's a Klein, but it still looks like garbage. I might be able to get a tailor to salvage it, but I haven't gotten around to it. I just wear my Zegna around everywhere instead.

Also why not try a half-windsor with those narrow collar shirts? That should be a small enough knot to go with the narrower collar. It's nice to switch up from the full windsor every now and then.

iheartbooks, on 20 March 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

Totally accurate, and true for women as well.

I realized the other year that I have exactly zero idea what accounts for quality in women's suits. Is there the same kind of price differential for quality/non-quality women's suits, or is the market not quite as inflated/rigidly striated as it is for men's suits?

[QuincyWagstaff]

Denning Jr, on 21 March 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

I realized the other year that I have exactly zero idea what accounts for quality in women's suits. Is there the same kind of price differential for quality/non-quality women's suits, or is the market not quite as inflated/rigidly striated as it is for men's suits?

Why would you care? Planning to start wearing them?

[Lord Denning]

Denning Jr, on 21 March 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

Also why not try a half-windsor with those narrow collar shirts? That should be a small enough knot to go with the narrower collar. It's nice to switch up from the full windsor every now and then.

I know people are big fans of the half-windsor. I use it sometimes, but for some reason the asymmetry really bothers me.

My usual knots in order of thickness: Full Windsor (only with a wide spread collar and with ties that make a small knot. I don't want a knot as wide as my neck), Pratt, St. Andrew's (my favourite), half windsor (very rarely, usually with thick/heavy ties), schoolboy/four-in-hand (slim ties/skinny ties; more casual occasions).

The St Andrew's knot is the bomb and nobody knows about it.

[t3ctonics]

I always use the Windsor or half-Windsor, simply because I've gotten really good at them because for the longest time they were the only knots I knew. I use the half much more frequently, mainly because it works better with most of my shirts and ties (like Lord Denning said, the full Windsor is best with a wide spread collar and smaller-knotting ties). My half Windsor is atually just as symmetrical as my full Windsor, but I pull my knots fairly tight while shaping them and as a result I've actually worn out a few cheaper ties (who wears out ties? wtf!)

Just a word of advice to lurkers: if you're going to wear a full Windsor, start as close to the narrow end as possible and tie the knot close to your neck and tight. Otherwise it can easily balloon up to the size of a softball. I've seen it happen! It just looks silly.

[HoFChaos]

The four-in-hand is arguably the most-fashionable knot because of its asymmetry. Skillfully tied, it can look quite chic.

Personally, I use four-in-hand for most of my shirts, save those with ultra-wide collars. I always use it when wearing a collar pin.

The nicky is my second-favourite, and I typically use it on my shirts with the widest collar spread.

I almost never use any of the symmetrical knots (the Windsors, pratt, or St. Andrew's) because they are a tad too boring for me.

While I've posted this link before in another thread, it really showcases how awesome a properly tied four-in-hand can look. Also, check out the video on page 4 to see it tied with a master's touch.

[visualpurple]

half-windsor is my go-to knot - it looks fantastic with a spread collar. A full windsor can look good if you can keep it small, but most people can't so it just looks tacky.

[Radfahrer]

I've always tied a full windsor and it ends up the size of two twoonies or so in the end, so it looks nice and balanced. The key to doing that is you start on the really thin end and wrap around really tightly. Otherwise ones that end up the size of your palms are incredibly tacky.

I'll also agree that once you put a good suit on- there's no going back. I bought a Boss suit, and even though it's not the absolute best out there, it's a drastic improvement over the crappy Moore's suit I had. It actually feels like it fits, I don't sweat like a pig while wearing it, and I just look pretty damn good in it. I've been matching it with a white dress shirt with thin vertical stripes and a solid (but textured) bright red tie. I feel like I'm ready to rule the world with that combo, but I'm also afraid it will come across as too cocky/strong for events and interviews.

Also, what's the deal regarding pocket squares in the legal world? I've been intrigued by them for the last while and like how they can add a little loud colour to a dull suit. But is it appropriate for a firm function, OCIs or summer/articling jobs?

[HoFChaos]

Radfahrer, on 22 March 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

Also, what's the deal regarding pocket squares in the legal world? I've been intrigued by them for the last while and like how they can add a little loud colour to a dull suit. But is it appropriate for a firm function, OCIs or summer/articling jobs?

If you are dressed and behave like a gentleman, they can only add to that image. Personally, I never wear a suit without a pocket square, unless I'm wearing a boutonniere--I break this rule if the flower is a poppy, or I'm attending a funeral, in both cases the pocket square is always plain, white linen.

[muffins]

Schoolboy is a good knot.

I always wear pocket squares. It should just peep out of your pocket, maybe a quarter inch.

[Lionel.Hutz]

I just wanna say I agree with some of the other posters. Men's fashion is a curse. Once you have a nice suit and feel how it fits, how it drapes, how confident you get, and how people just generally treat you better, it's REALLY hard to start wearing cheap suits. Plus, a nice suit increases poontang rate by like a 10000% (serious).

Remember boys, http://i.imgur.com/3rlxD.jpg

[Denning Jr]

QuincyWagstaff, on 21 March 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

Why would you care? Planning to start wearing them?

Curiosity, mostly. When I am confronted with my own ignorance in a topic I do what I can to rectify it.

I also feel left out not being able to condescend towards poorly dressed women in the same way I do towards poorly dressed men. I like to be gender-inclusive with my snobbery.

Lord Denning, on 22 March 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

I know people are big fans of the half-windsor. I use it sometimes, but for some reason the asymmetry really bothers me.

My usual knots in order of thickness: Full Windsor (only with a wide spread collar and with ties that make a small knot. I don't want a knot as wide as my neck), Pratt, St. Andrew's (my favourite), half windsor (very rarely, usually with thick/heavy ties), schoolboy/four-in-hand (slim ties/skinny ties; more casual occasions).

The St Andrew's knot is the bomb and nobody knows about it.

This is hilarious, as the single biggest problem I have with the half-windsor is that it's asymmetrical. At least, until you fold your collar down over it. Then it usually looks aright, if you've tied it properly. Sometimes it still bothers me though...just knowing that underneath my collar it is still under there, being all asymmetrical.

I'm in full agreement with you on the full windsor though. It only works well if you tie it really tight, otherwise it looks tacky and ridiculous. I'll admit I haven't tried those other knots out very often, I'll have to try and branch out more often.

[Lord Denning]

Denning Jr, on 03 April 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

... it still bothers me though...just knowing that underneath my collar it is still under there, being all asymmetrical.

Exactly.

That said, I agree with what HoF said earlier, though. Asymetical can be the most style-forward. The thread he posted shows the four-in-hand and double four-in-hand beautifully done. I just feel like the symmetrical knots come off as more serious, which is what I'm going for.

Anyone ever tried the Onassis knot in real life? That's the craziest thing ever.

[Denning Jr]

Lord Denning, on 03 April 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Exactly.

That said, I agree with what HoF said earlier, though. Asymetical can be the most style-forward. The thread he posted shows the four-in-hand and double four-in-hand beautifully done. I just feel like the symmetrical knots come off as more serious, which is what I'm going for.

Anyone ever tried the Onassis knot in real life? That's the craziest thing ever.

I just like the symmetry because I'm compulsive and neurotic. It has nothing to do with professionalism, and everything to do with asymmetry fundamentally bothering me. Like Trypophobia.

Onassis...What the heck is this...how does this even work?

[Maurice Levy]

Denning Jr, on 03 April 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

I just like the symmetry because I'm compulsive and neurotic. It has nothing to do with professionalism, and everything to do with asymmetry fundamentally bothering me. Like Trypophobia.

I am now extremely itchy. And I hate you.

[Uriel]

HoFChaos, on 22 March 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

If you are dressed and behave like a gentleman, they can only add to that image. Personally, I never wear a suit without a pocket square, unless I'm wearing a boutonniere--I break this rule if the flower is a poppy, or I'm attending a funeral, in both cases the pocket square is always plain, white linen.

The pocket square is where I'll go a bit too far sometimes. Like everything else, once you've gotten used to it you feel terrible without it. Wearing a suit jacket without a pocket square feels like walking around with my laces untied or my hair shaggy.

I've only got about seven or eight shirts I actually put on for the office, but I've got about a dozen of these floppy little things in every colour of the rainbow. I need to be stopped.

I almost always wear a plain white linen pocket square, unless the colours I'm wearing make the white start screaming. Today it's a navy suit, white shirt with burgundy pinstripes, light brown leather belt and brogues and a merlot-gold tie. White seemed a little weird with the yellow, so I went with a tiny poof of mustard-gold silk. It coordinates fairly well with the tie, leather and cufflinks. The other ones that find their way into businesswear are wine with white trim, fine red and white stripes and a powder blue with a white check border. The wacky paisleys and florals are usually reserved for blazers and arts-function outfits.

Lord Denning, on 22 March 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

Square toes.

[Uriel]

AlbertaFem, on 22 February 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

How about dresses for women? I've seen a few female lawyers rocking the a dress, but I've also seen some really poor fitting 'suits' (aka a random jacket paired with random pants).

It can definitely work, but it's going to depend on the way it's worn. Of course there's a lot more room for creativity in wearing a dress 'down' than there is in wearing a suit 'up'. For example, there are two articling students here at the firm that I think are warring it out for best-dressed. One goes with the classic suit or pencil skirt every day in a broad swath of combinations and gets creative with the blouse and hair. Variations on a theme, a little bit austere, very professional.

And in the blue corner, we've got someone that takes a lot more risks and wears bright dresses but tones everything else down for control. She normally has big, exploding curls that just let fly with a plain skirt and blouse. The other day, she came in in an peacock blue dress and red belt. But! Sensible Mary Janes, hair ponytailed back, heavy-rimmed black glasses. It was a great balance; you can turn the treble up if you turn the bass down. Wearing that dress with white heels and hair on fire would have made her look like she was on her way to the beach. As it was, she just looked like a sharp, creative professional.

[borden]

For guys:
The shape of your physique plays a major role in how you look in a suit. So get in a little better shape. Try getting rid of excess fat around the midsection and chest, and putting on a couple pounds of muscle around the shoulder/back area. Then have a good tailor properly fit your suit jacket to your body, and if you're adventurous get your suit pants slightly tapered as well. You have no idea the difference this will make in how you look in a suit no matter how much you spent on it.

I used to buy entry level designer suits from Harry Rosen/Holt (around 990-1200) but I realized their manufacturing quality is nothing amazing. However designer brands always give the fitted and tapered modern look that you see in fashion magazines and this same look sets designer brands apart from "cheap" suits. Now I buy 120 dollar suits from the Bay and get them tailored for 130 dollars. The tailor fits the suit jacket to my body, shortens the length of my suit jacket (sometimes 3-4 inches) so it doesn't look baggy and oversized and hems and tapers my pant legs. The best feeling isn't getting compliments on how I look but when people are shocked when I tell them it's a no name brand that cost me 250 dollars in total.

[Lord Denning]

borden, on 04 April 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

...I used to buy entry level designer suits from Harry Rosen/Holt (around 990-1200) but I realized their manufacturing quality is nothing amazing. However designer brands always give the fitted and tapered modern look that you see in fashion magazines and this same look sets designer brands apart from "cheap" suits. Now I buy 120 dollar suits from the Bay and get them tailored for 130 dollars. The tailor fits the suit jacket to my body, shortens the length of my suit jacket (sometimes 3-4 inches) so it doesn't look baggy and oversized and hems and tapers my pant legs. The best feeling isn't getting compliments on how I look but when people are shocked when I tell them it's a no name brand that cost me 250 dollars in total.

I actually have a $120 suit hanging in the closet I will try this with. Don't you find the shoulders to be all effed up on the cheaper suits, though? The one I have is all right, but nothing awesome.

Also, if you are in TO, where do you go for that major tailoring? I have like 5 alterations I need to get done on various suits/jackets/pants.

[borden]

Lord Denning, on 04 April 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

I actually have a $120 suit hanging in the closet I will try this with. Don't you find the shoulders to be all effed up on the cheaper suits, though? The one I have is all right, but nothing awesome.

Also, if you are in TO, where do you go for that major tailoring? I have like 5 alterations I need to get done on various suits/jackets/pants.

Hey sorry don't know any good tailors in Toronto. I'm from Vancouver and I found my tailor from reading reviews on yelp and styleforum.

The most important thing about taking stuff to the tailor is having a trusting relationship with him/her. I knew my tailor was right for me when he told me I should just throw away one of the suits I brought in instead of having him do work on it. Also don't be afraid to tell your tailor what you want the final product to look like. If he pins it up and you think the jacket should be a little tighter to the body or the pants to slim down a little more tell him cause at the end of the day you have to be happy with it.

If your 120 dollar suit is a three button suit I would say just leave it in your closet. From my experience a lot of older 3 button suits are naturally boxy and squarish and need a lot of work to give them that modern fashion look (I know exactly what you mean by the weird shoulders). When you take the suit in to the tailor, do some research and look online/through magazines for a style/shape of suit you like and ask if its possible for the tailor to emulate that. If not then just forget about it and save your money for another day.

[JAGGERS]

Just saw this... can't speak for how good it is, but if you want to learn a few tie knots, the reviews look good.

http://itunes.apple....d441129355?mt=8

[Radfahrer]

Just got back from a semi-backpacking trip in Asia...

I picked up 2 bespoke suits made by what is considered to be the finest tailor in Hong Kong, which involved multiple fittings, a convoluted process of choosing fabrics and planning how I wanted the suit to look. It came out to a fraction of the price of what I was quoted by Harry Rosen and a few other independent tailors in Toronto, and just a tad more expensive than the entry-level off the rack designer suits at MSRP in Toronto. Even if you count the flight to Hong Kong in the cost, I still managed to save some 40% over getting it done locally.