43 replies to this topic

[Wenis]

Assuming that you've done some light prep/practice tests in the past but nothing really heavy/serious to prepare. You average 152-157 on your practice runs. You aren't in school at the moment, and took a full vacation week off work so you would have no other obligations but to prepare for the LSAT for the entire week.....

How would you spend it? How would you budget your time? Would you do mostly practice tests or spend more time on the "bibles" or other prep books?

And yes....in b4 "lulz @ 1 week, you need months to properly prepare" etc. etc.

[hefeweizen]

Tell us more about where your "problem" spots have been on the practice runs. Are you running out of time on all the sections, and losing points there, or do you have one section (say, the games) where you lose a ton of points, with better performances in other areas? Is it a mix? More details will put us in a much stronger position to help you.

By the way, judging by the status that you posted in the other thread for your GPA, etc, you fortunately don't have to worry about bringing your LSAT up an intense amount. The fact that you have only one week is perhaps far less daunting than someone who definitely needs 170+ for admittance; you aren't trying to "make up" for any other weakness, only come in at a respectable level. That plays in your favour, IMO, in that you can focus on shoring up obvious weaknesses as a method of making quick gains.

[Wenis]

hefeweizen, on 03 February 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

Tell us more about where your "problem" spots have been on the practice runs. Are you running out of time on all the sections, and losing points there, or do you have one section (say, the games) where you lose a ton of points, with better performances in other areas? Is it a mix? More details will put us in a much stronger position to help you.

By the way, judging by the status that you posted in the other thread for your GPA, etc, you fortunately don't have to worry about bringing your LSAT up an intense amount. The fact that you have only one week is perhaps far less daunting than someone who definitely needs 170+ for admittance; you aren't trying to "make up" for any other weakness, only come in at a respectable level. That plays in your favour, IMO, in that you can focus on shoring up obvious weaknesses as a method of making quick gains.

My weakness is definitely the logic games with reading comprehension being where I'm strongest.

I get a ton more questions wrong in the games than in the other sections. Time is my biggest enemy in that section, which forces me to rush and guess some questions. I tried using the diagramming methods in the Powerscore bible, but I still suck donkey testicles at these games and find myself losing focus and getting confused a lot.

I'm not sure whether to focus my strengths (reading comprehension/logical reasoning) with the theory that nailing those sections will give me more room for error on the analytical reasoning section, or whether to focus on my weakness to try and have a more well-rounded test.

As far as the materials I have to work with, thus far I have all the tests from the early 90s up to June 2009, and all of the "bibles."

Edited by Wenis, 03 February 2012 - 10:33 PM.

[staffer]

Sorry to be a buzzkill but I don't think there's much you can do in a week. Your score won't be raised at all by a week of cramming because there' no 'trick' you can learn that will make you "know" how to do the LSAT.

I went from a 157 to 165 last December. Looking back at my data (yes, I'm weird like that) I had a pretty steady rise of about 1 point per week for 2 months. That was with daily drills, the powerscore books (which you don't even have time to order) and 3 practice tests a week.

I don't think it's going to happen, sorry.

Edited by staffer, 03 February 2012 - 10:36 PM.

[wickedsis]

Everyone is pretty different. I know kids who go in cold and score nicely. Others who spend 12 months and drop the ball completely. I'd just do complete tests, and live and breathe logic games for a few hours after that.

[Wenis]

staffer, on 03 February 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

Sorry to be a buzzkill but I don't think there's much you can do in a week. Your score won't be raised at all by a week of cramming because there' no 'trick' you can learn that will make you "know" how to do the LSAT.

I went from a 157 to 165 last December. Looking back at my data (yes, I'm weird like that) I had a pretty steady rise of about 1 point per week for 2 months. That was with daily drills, the powerscore books (which you don't even have time to order) and 3 practice tests a week.

I don't think it's going to happen, sorry.

eh.... my question was more along the lines of "how would you spend the week?" and less along the lines of "do you think 'it' will happen?" but thanks anyways for the input.

My daily schedule since last Tuesday has consisted of 3-4 chapters of "bible" study and one full timed practice test per day. Just trying to figure out how to make more efficient use of my time.

[jin45]

Well, the conventional wisdom is that LG is an easy section to improve on. Here's what I'd say:

1. Review LG bible and LR bible. Do four to six timed logic games sections. Review games.
2. PT 61 + review (review means go over every question, right or wrong, to improve speed and accuracy)
3. PT 62 + review
4. Review LG bible, review LR bible, and do four to six more timed logic games sections. Review games.
5. PT 63 + review. Do extra timed LR sections.
6. PT 64 + review. Do extra timed LG sections.
7. PT 65 + review

edit: added PT numbers.

Edited by jin45, 03 February 2012 - 10:52 PM.

[Wenis]

jin45, on 03 February 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

Well, the conventional wisdom is that LG is an easy section to improve on. Here's what I'd say:

1. Review LG bible and LR bible. Do four to six timed logic games sections. Review games.
2. PT 61 + review (review means go over every question, right or wrong, to improve speed and accuracy)
3. PT 62 + review
4. Review LG bible, review LR bible, and do four to six more timed logic games sections. Review games.
5. PT 63 + review. Do extra timed LR sections.
6. PT 64 + review. Do extra timed LG sections.
7. PT 65 + review

edit: added PT numbers.

I likey.

Very nice schedule. Thank you, sir.

The goal for tomorrow will be to give the LG/LR bibles a full read-through and do 4 timed lg sections.

Will try to do at least 2 full PT's/day for the next week, or one full PT + 4 extra lg sections and then fully re-read the bibles on Tuesday.

[hefeweizen]

Agree with jin45 that if games are your weakness, you should spend the week mostly focusing on those. If you put the whole week into that, I think you'll see more gains than you will by trying to bring up the areas you're already pretty good at - there are less "tricks" for reading comp, so it takes more time to show improvements there, especially if you're already at a certain level.

[Crim Bob-Omb]

I agree with above. However, I think you should be pretty tight on Logic Games in a couple days. You have 24hrs/5 days (plus weekends, I presume). I would say write 10 or so logic games per day for the first 3 or so, then transition into the logical reasoning bible. Remember that you will face 2x the logical reasoning, therefore every minute there has more value. Don't write full tests. Reading comp is a waste of time. If you've got it, you've got it, move on to the more important sections.

Best of luck BTW.

[hillsofmexico]

LG are, luckily, quite improveable. I scored in mid 156 in December while only getting 6 questions right in the LG section. I'm consistently getting another 10-14 answers correctly, or about 162-164, after 6 weeks of intensive effort. You'll have to breathe the LSAT. Starting today or tomorrow I would throw in a 6th section of LGs. The one from PT57 is one of the trickier ones I've encountered recently. Make sure to do it.

To make serious headway, though, a test and review may not cut it. I'd develop a regime that consisted of :
3h:45m of a 6 section test a day;
3 hours to rest;
2 hours of review;
2 hours rest;
2-4 hours of 3 untimed sections of LG and review of those sections.

It's doable, although I'm so glad you're writing, bro. Bring friends too.
I'm kidding--well not really. Aha. Your PT range isn't even that bad. You may luck out and get a score in the high 150s.

[muffins]

LG Bible. Do complete 5 section exams at least once a day, timed.

[KER_2012]

hillsofmexico, on 04 February 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:

To make serious headway, though, a test and review may not cut it. I'd develop a regime that consisted of :
3h:45m of a 6 section test a day;
3 hours to rest;
2 hours of review;
2 hours rest;
2-4 hours of 3 untimed sections of LG and review of those sections.

I like this. Make sure you do all your full tests times and use LG as your variable section(s). I very much stand by the idea the LG is the easiest area to improve in in a short amount of time.

[CaptainCrunchMan]

Wenis, on 03 February 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

Assuming that you've done some light prep/practice tests in the past but nothing really heavy/serious to prepare. You average 152-157 on your practice runs. You aren't in school at the moment, and took a full vacation week off work so you would have no other obligations but to prepare for the LSAT for the entire week.....

How would you spend it? How would you budget your time? Would you do mostly practice tests or spend more time on the "bibles" or other prep books?

And yes....in b4 "lulz @ 1 week, you need months to properly prepare" etc. etc.

First off, let me say that I only scored a 159 (although that was sufficient with my GPA), so take what I say with a grain of salt. I hadn't really planned on going to law school and decided a few weeks prior to the applications deadline that I'd like to apply. I ended up spending two weeks in total studying (took a break from everything else). That didn't give me enough time to read the prep books, so I just wrote a full length test almost everyday. I wrote ~10 in total, focused on the more recent ones, and went over the detailed solution explanations that Kaplan provides. By doing the tests, you see patterns in the question types very quickly, especially in the LR section. I also have a strong background in research, and that definitely helped me, since I've been trained to see flaws in studies. I found it really difficult to improve on RC, so I focused my energy on improving LR mainly. If you are not doing well in LR, that's probably a good section to focus on since it is worth the most marks and definitely improve-able.

Feel free to PM me if you've got questions about LSAT cramming

[Wenis]

CaptainCrunchMan, on 04 February 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

I hadn't really planned on going to law school and decided a few weeks prior to the applications deadline that I'd like to apply. I ended up spending two weeks in total studying (took a break from everything else).

lol, this is almost identical to my situation. I just made the decision to apply this past November. Barely made the deadline for registering to write the LSAT and got my personal statement and application materials in by the skin of my teeth before the deadlines.

Will have had exactly 2 weeks total to prepare for the test: last week and this week.

Thanks for the tips. I'm inclined to agree with you that writing tons of PT's is a pretty effective way to cram. I've spent most of my time thus far doing PT's (5 total so far) I am noticing that my PT scores seem to be improving slightly (152-154 average on the first 3 tests I took and 156-157 on the last two)

Edited by Wenis, 04 February 2012 - 01:15 PM.

[theprophet89]

Short-term studier checking in. OP, I started 3 weeks ago and studied games for a week, LR for a week, and RC for a few days. This week I'm doing pure PTs and shoring up my mistakes. Consistently in the mid 150s with a peak ceiling in the top 160s if all went perfectly (obviously this is what I'm working on). You won't have a lot of time to master everything, so from what I've learned in a short amount of time, all I can say is:

1) Games is completely worth learning. Went from ~ -12's to -1 or -2 easily. Time can kill you but remember to do the biggest games first; its worth taking the time to get an 8 question game and just guess a 5 if you have to, and since most questions provide at least 2 questions that can be answered with little effort, this principle is even more applicable. You could get -3 by doing 3 games well and guessing the last.

2) LR is really important. 50% of test is worth it any way you cut it. I personally am stuck in the -7/-12 range so thats my focus area.

3) As stated above, RC is time consuming. There aren't really tricks, its pure trial and error IMO. I'm really bad at it and will probably try to mitigate the damage.


Don't try to master the whole thing, just make rational decision as to how to get the raw score you need. You can easily get into the 160's by bombing 1 section and crushing the others.

Just my 2c.

Edited by theprophet89, 04 February 2012 - 01:52 PM.

[Wenis]

gah... I just totally bombed my second PT of the day.

1st PT of the day: Early in the morning after chugging an extra strength 5 hour energy and about a litre of coffee, printed the actual test and used the official answer sheet. Score: 68 Raw 157 Scaled, finished a few sections with minutes to spare

2nd PT of the day: At night (9-11), took the test off the pdf on my laptop screen using a sheet of looseleaf for answers instead of printing it, couldn't make quick notes (circle, underline) in the RC part. Score 61 Raw, 151 scaled. Ran out of time with 5 unanswered questions in the LG.

So how the heck did you guys manage to master these LG's so quickly? I'm trying my hardest, reading the LG bible, using the diagrams, etc. but with some of the games I just can't figure out how to attack the problem and make the proper inferences. I'm a total dummy with these games.

Edited by Wenis, 04 February 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[yoni45]

Jeebus. A couple of things:

First off: stop doing consecutive PT's. You're in a score range that you either shouldn't have or barely would have had enough time to both do the tests properly and to review them properly. Even had you had enough time, it's just an ineffective way to study. No more than one PT in a day, and I'd suggest skipping tomorrow, doing one Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. PT's are good for endurance training and for gauging your current abilities; little more.

On that second point you're also shooting yourself in the foot by doing it at night. You're far more worn out, end up scoring lower, and in turn take a shot to your confidence which will add to your anxiety when you do need to perform. If you're going to do a PT, do it in the morning. Not right when you wake up either -- at least an hour or two after you've woken up and had some time to adjust.

Don't practice off of the computer. It's an entirely different experience in more ways than one. If you're going to put yourself through this, do it right (speaking of which, make sure you're using a scantron sheet too).

Instead of doing back to back PT's, grab the section you want to focus on (looks like games in your case), and focus on it. Do one section, and thoroughly review it. Every last bit of it. Not just why the right answers are right, but why the wrong ones are wrong (args and RC), and what's the most efficient way to get those answers that you didn't manage (games). Having done that, you should have picked up a number of *concrete* things that you will try implementing in the next attempt on a section of that type. At which point, do another section of that type. Then review again, and repeat.

Work towards actually mastering things -- don't just blindly burn preptest after preptest.

[staffer]

Wenis, are you an applicant this cycle? If not, I think you should cancel and write in June or September.

[Wenis]

yoni45, on 04 February 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

Jeebus. A couple of things:

First off: stop doing consecutive PT's. You're in a score range that you either shouldn't have or barely would have had enough time to both do the tests properly and to review them properly. Even had you had enough time, it's just an ineffective way to study. No more than one PT in a day, and I'd suggest skipping tomorrow, doing one Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. PT's are good for endurance training and for gauging your current abilities; little more.

On that second point you're also shooting yourself in the foot by doing it at night. You're far more worn out, end up scoring lower, and in turn take a shot to your confidence which will add to your anxiety when you do need to perform. If you're going to do a PT, do it in the morning. Not right when you wake up either -- at least an hour or two after you've woken up and had some time to adjust.

Don't practice off of the computer. It's an entirely different experience in more ways than one. If you're going to put yourself through this, do it right (speaking of which, make sure you're using a scantron sheet too).

Instead of doing back to back PT's, grab the section you want to focus on (looks like games in your case), and focus on it. Do one section, and thoroughly review it. Every last bit of it. Not just why the right answers are right, but why the wrong ones are wrong (args and RC), and what's the most efficient way to get those answers that you didn't manage (games). Having done that, you should have picked up a number of *concrete* things that you will try implementing in the next attempt on a section of that type. At which point, do another section of that type. Then review again, and repeat.

Work towards actually mastering things -- don't just blindly burn preptest after preptest.

This is what my Saturday looked like:

8:30-11:30: Preptest 46, timed.

11:30-12:00: Coffee, internet and smoke break

12:00-1:30: Reviewed my wrong answers with the Kaplan Explanations

1:30-3:30: Went home for lunch and a break. Back at library by 4:00.

4:00 - 7:00: Read as much of the LR Bible as I could in the 3 hours before they closed the library and kicked me out.

8:00: Home for dinner

9:00-11:30: Figured I had a few hours to burn before bed, so I decided to do PT 47. Wife and baby were being noisy and was out of printer paper. Sh*tty waste of 3 hours, though there may be some benefit in reviewing later.

Overall, the day wasn't nearly as productive as it should have been. Will try a different strategy tomorrow.

staffer, on 04 February 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

Wenis, are you an applicant this cycle? If not, I think you should cancel and write in June or September.

Yup, I have two applications in for Sept. 2012.

I'm off work for the next week anyways and already potentially wasted my money the application fees, so I'm just gonna stick with ridiculous cramming for the week and try my luck. If I bomb it, no biggie. I'll just take my time to properly prepare and re-write/re-apply in the summer/fall.

Edited by Wenis, 04 February 2012 - 10:05 PM.

[yoni45]

Make sure you're sleeping well -- most of this stuff only starts becoming useful once you've slept on it and it sunk in. It needs to be intuitive when you get in the test.

Otherwise, test in the morning is fine. Don't take tests in the evening. Instead, do individually timed practice sections and work on carefully fine tuning your approach to improve those sections. And can't stress this enough -- sleep well... =)

[wickedsis]

Wenis, on 04 February 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

So how the heck did you guys manage to master these LG's so quickly? I'm trying my hardest, reading the LG bible, using the diagrams, etc. but with some of the games I just can't figure out how to attack the problem and make the proper inferences. I'm a total dummy with these games.

I used the Pithypike method on tls.com. Essentially, I printed out 3 copies of every single LG in existence, and then cranked out 40 Logic Games a day, over 3 months. It was a pretty nasty pile of work.

[hefeweizen]

If you don't mind saying on a message board, where do you live? If it's one of Canada's larger centres, I think it would be worth your while to search out an LSAT tutor for a games cram session (perhaps through someone on this board - there are quite a few people here, I believe, who have either worked with or know very experienced LSAT tutors). If you're finding it hard to get through the Bible explanations, you may need someone who has the experience to explain methodologies in a variety of different ways, until they find the one that works for you. If you can find someone who can do a last minute session, I think it would probably be worth the $.

[QuincyWagstaff]

wickedsis, on 04 February 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

I used the Pithypike method on tls.com. Essentially, I printed out 3 copies of every single LG in existence, and then cranked out 40 Logic Games a day, over 3 months. It was a pretty nasty pile of work.

40 games/day ? @ 7 minutes /game, that's almost FIVE HOURS. Per day. In games alone. Not sure if srs. Hope you at least got -0. In like 20 minutes.

[wickedsis]

QuincyWagstaff, on 04 February 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

40 games/day ? @ 7 minutes /game, that's almost FIVE HOURS. Per day. In games alone. Not sure if srs. Hope you at least got -0. In like 20 minutes.

You can bet your ass it didn't take me 7 minutes/game after the first 2 weeks. It felt more like ~15 minutes total. I know I spent most of the LSAT staring blankly into space, waiting for the timer to run out. I dropped all my points in the first LR, on the first 10 questions of the first section. The other few scattered through the second LR and RC. It must have been the cup of coffee I neglected to drink on exam day.

I'm an idiot like that. See you at UBC Law.

[theprophet89]

hefeweizen, on 04 February 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

If you don't mind saying on a message board, where do you live? If it's one of Canada's larger centres, I think it would be worth your while to search out an LSAT tutor for a games cram session (perhaps through someone on this board - there are quite a few people here, I believe, who have either worked with or know very experienced LSAT tutors). If you're finding it hard to get through the Bible explanations, you may need someone who has the experience to explain methodologies in a variety of different ways, until they find the one that works for you. If you can find someone who can do a last minute session, I think it would probably be worth the $.

The uselessness is strong with this one. Even if there was a manual for getting a 180 with specific instructions, this guy doesn't have the time to learn it. He has a slimmer chance of success having someone else teach him the material in a week than he does of just teaching himself. I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this is a completely retarded suggestion considering how much tutors cost.

Edited by theprophet89, 05 February 2012 - 02:53 AM.

[hefeweizen]

You don't think that he could gain more out of 4 hours of someone who really knows their stuff explaining games in a way that he (or she, sorry, I'm not sure) understands, versus 4 days reading the Bibles (which so far, at least, the OP has said haven't really gotten through)? A three minute explanation that really clicks with the OP could be worth more points than 3 days of reading and trying games without any forward momentum.

Perhaps I'm wrong - some people don't learn well working with others - but there's a reason lots of law students have a "attend class, ignore the readings" policy - the prof knows that material cold, and if they explain it in a way that works for you, teaching it to yourself over a long period of time by reading, etc ends up being redundant or useless.

[Wenis]

Had a much more productive day today.

Took everyone's advice of not focussing primarily on PT's and instead spent 10 hours with the LG bible and games. By taking myself out of the constant timed pressure cooker I found that I was able to learn a lot more when I relaxed and took my time.

After doing several games untimed, I discovered that I don't inherently have a problem with LG, since I was getting almost every question right when I took as much time as I needed to solve them. Was able to determine that my problem with the LGs is speed. Hopefully, if I can manage to sharpen my LG skills a little more, then speed may follow.
If I can manage to acheive -6ish on the LGs rather than the usual -10-12 by test day, there may be a glimmer of hope yet.

Thanks for the input thus far folks, it's been very helpful.

Edited by Wenis, 05 February 2012 - 10:18 PM.

[wickedsis]

Wenis, on 05 February 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

Had a much more productive day today.

Took everyone's advice of not focussing primarily on PT's and instead spent 10 hours with the LG bible and games. By taking myself out of the constant timed pressure cooker I found that I was able to learn a lot more when I relaxed and took my time.

After doing several games untimed, I discovered that I don't inherently have a problem with LG, since I was getting almost every question right when I took as much time as I needed to solve them. Was able to determine that my problem with the LGs is speed. Hopefully, if I can manage to sharpen my LG skills a little more, then speed may follow.
If I can manage to acheive -6ish on the LGs rather than the usual -10-12 by test day, there may be a glimmer of hope yet.

Thanks for the input thus far folks, it's been very helpful.

Hey Wenis, glad to hear everything's going good. Here's something that was enormously helpful to me: http://www.youtube.com/user/lsatpingu

You won't find every single LG covered there, but if you're having trouble speeding stuff up, check out how he sets up problems efficiently.

[Wenis]

Out of curiosity, do you guys normally score roughly the same on test day as you do your PT's? or is the actual test score usually notably lower?

I remember reading somewhere that you should assume that you will score roughly 4 points less on the actual test than the PT's (can't remember if they meant 4pts off raw or scaled though).

wickedsis, on 05 February 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

Hey Wenis, glad to hear everything's going good. Here's something that was enormously helpful to me: http://www.youtube.com/user/lsatpingu

You won't find every single LG covered there, but if you're having trouble speeding stuff up, check out how he sets up problems efficiently.

^ Nice find, thanks. One of the instructors in those videos has a really nice way of explaining things that makes a lot of sense.