19 replies to this topic

[headlines]

Hey, looking to pick the brains of people here to help me out. I'm dealing with a dilemma in terms of when to write the LSAT, and also when to take my prep course.

1. I work full-time in the Summer (8a - 4p) starting May 1. Would writing the June 12th LSAT with one month of study while working full-time be advisable? I know it depends on how productive and efficient my work habits are as I'm sure some of you will be quick to point out- but logically, would it be better to study all summer and write Oct 6?

-it should be noted that my LSAT is going to be a major factor in my application, as my GPA, while it is pretty good this year (3rd) so far, has been less then stellar in previous years.

2. If Oct. 6 is my selection- should I take the prep course that runs from July 7-August 29, or Sept. 4 - Oct. 4.

For anyone wondering- I'm going to be taking the Princeton Review 35 hour Essentials prep course. (any feedback from people who have taken this would be nice!)

Thanks in advance.

[dlb]

I'd say that one month of prep while working full-time would not be the best idea. It's possible, but most people try to take off some time before writing the LSAT to dedicate themselves fully to their studying.

However, before you can even ask yourself if this is possible for you, you need to gage how much time you need to spend on LSAT prep. If you haven't already done so, write a diagnostic test. Familiarize yourself with the material so you can get a sense for what you need to work on. Are you scoring in the 140s? 150s? 160s? 170s? This will be a strong indication of how much work you'll need. The lower you're scoring, the more work you need to put into studying and so on.

Personally, I spent about 3 weeks doing light prep (i.e. practice tests and reading the Powerscore LG Bible) because I was working while prepping (not ideal). My only aim was to score over 160, which I did. But if your GPA is a bit lower, you'll need to aim for a higher LSAT score. Besides, you should always aim for 180 (I just knew it wasn't feasible for me with my work schedule).

Re. Princeton Review, if you're able to, I'd invest in Testmasters or Powerscore. I personally didn't take a class so someone else will have to weigh in on this, but I haven't heard too many positive things about Princeton, Oxford, and similar prep companies. The issue is that these courses are very formulaic and generally only give you a cursory overview of the LSAT. As the course title reads, it's an "essentials" class, meaning that they'll be covering the basics. If you're looking to score higher, you'll need something more in depth.

Summary (because I realize I've just written a novella):
1. Write a diagnostic to get a sense of where you're at and how much prep you need.
2. Write Oct 6, not June 12 unless you feel prepared for June.
3. Don't take the Princeton Review course if you're looking to score higher.

Edited by dlb, 17 January 2012 - 01:17 PM.

[buck]

dlb, on 17 January 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

1. Write a diagnostic

It's hard to give advice without this critical piece of information and also the score you are aiming for. It took me a month of studying (while working full-time) to go from a 160 diagnostic to a 166 and then another month to get to 170. Ideally, though, I would've liked to take two months off work and focus exclusively on the LSAT. I think two months is a minimum to reach your maximum potential.

ETA: Take the prep course as early as you can. Then you can use the rest of the time to practice practice practice and work on your weaknesses. The prep course itself won't guarantee a good score--it'll just teach you the techniques. You've gotta put in the time to fine tune your approach.

Edited by buck, 17 January 2012 - 01:59 PM.

[yeahman]

3 time test taker here.

I took the intensive class with Princeton Review before my first LSAT in 2009. Did ok on the LSAT given the amount of time I invested (about 8 weeks for a 158) I was in a similar position as you (low GPA) so my mediocre LSAT was going to have to improve. Retook the Princeton class the following year (as its part of their guarantee - not getting your desired score or what have you) and scored remarkably worse - although this was mostly do to personal issues I was dealing with. If anything, the class was useful for getting additional materials and tests for free. Late in my prep, I purchased the coveted Powerscore Bibles for logic games and Logical Reasoning, and realized the Princeton approach to games was shoddy at best. This year, armed with 2 years worth of Princeton materials, Powerscore bibles, and countless practice tests, I utilized self-study and a disciplined approach to drastically improve my score (166).

In short, the Princeton course will help familiarize you with the fundamentals and basic concepts, however if you want to take your score to the next level you will have to utilize some sort of of self-study method and more touted approach to the Logic Games (see Powerscore or Manhattan Study guides). Keep in mind, these courses aren't typically geared towards people looking to score in the higher ranges.

My advice: Purchase the Powerscore set of bibles and as many preptests as you can get your hands on. Go through the Bibles at least twice so that the concepts are firmly ingrained and become second nature. Before attempting any test, make several photocopies of every Logic Games section as redoing these will become invaluable to your study. The formulaic nature of the logic game section makes it the most conducive to large gains and acing this section will be your surest bet to a strong score. Once you are comfortable with the material in general, proceed to timed sections, and eventually tests. You can find many resources online with regards to specific study schedules given the amount of time you are able and willing to invest, such as this:

http://lsatblog.blog...ules-plans.html

Good luck.

[headlines]

Thanks for the advice so far.

The reason I'm taking the Princeton Review course is because I'm receiving 50% off. Also, I'm getting the Powerscore Bibles from a buddy who wrote the LSAT a couple year ago to further supplement my studying.

My plan is:

Part 1: Start studying June 1 by myself, familiarize myself with the exam and put in light prep.
Part 2: June 7 - Aug 28 is when my prep course runs, so balls to the walls studying in this time period.
Part 3: All of Sept will be dedicated to doing as many tests as possible, and staying sharp. Practise makes perfect!

Thoughts?

Edited by headlines, 17 January 2012 - 04:28 PM.

[dlb]

headlines, on 17 January 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Thanks for the advice so far.

The reason I'm taking the Princeton Review course is because I'm receiving 50% off. Also, I'm getting the Powerscore Bibles from a buddy who wrote the LSAT a couple year ago to further supplement my studying.

My plan is:

Part 1: Start studying June 1 by myself, familiarize myself with the exam and put in light prep.
Part 2: June 7 - Aug 28 is when my prep course runs, so balls to the walls studying in this time period.
Part 3: All of Sept will be dedicated to doing as many tests as possible, and staying sharp. Practise makes perfect!

Thoughts?

Looks like a good plan to me! Definitely do as many TIMED practice tests as you can. Make sure to dedicate a decent amount of time to reviewing both the questions you answered correctly and incorrectly.

I'm not sure what others will say about this, but the week before the test, I think it's best to just chill. Watch movies, read books, exercise a lot, and don't do anything LSAT related. I have pretty bad standardized test anxiety, and I found that taking a week to get into a mental space where I felt calm and relaxed paid off huge.

I wish you all the best. Study hard and you'll rock the LSAT!

[Jaspri]

dlb, on 17 January 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Looks like a good plan to me! Definitely do as many TIMED practice tests as you can. Make sure to dedicate a decent amount of time to reviewing both the questions you answered correctly and incorrectly.

I'm not sure what others will say about this, but the week before the test, I think it's best to just chill. Watch movies, read books, exercise a lot, and don't do anything LSAT related. I have pretty bad standardized test anxiety, and I found that taking a week to get into a mental space where I felt calm and relaxed paid off huge.

I wish you all the best. Study hard and you'll rock the LSAT!

Oh wow...I have bad test anxiety too. So much so that in PTs my scores fluctuate from 151 to 166 depending on if I can keep my anxiety/negative head space in check. I'm writing my first (hopefully last) LSAT in Feb. I already postponed once because of the anxiety. The last little while I've just been focusing on staying calm while writing.

Any tips?

[KER_2012]

Jaspri, on 17 January 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

Any tips?

if you can, do some practice tests in the building you'll be writing, and if possible the exact room. Get into the habit of going to bed and waking up early-ish and eating a good breakfast in the morning.

At the very least, on the day before the test do nothing even remotely LSAT related. Like dlb, I think I went to the gym and watched movies.

[dlb]

Jaspri, on 17 January 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

Oh wow...I have bad test anxiety too. So much so that in PTs my scores fluctuate from 151 to 166 depending on if I can keep my anxiety/negative head space in check. I'm writing my first (hopefully last) LSAT in Feb. I already postponed once because of the anxiety. The last little while I've just been focusing on staying calm while writing.

Any tips?

Jaspri, I feel for you. I second what KER2012 said and just wanted to add: go to the test site as much as possible. I wrote at UBC and wrote some practice tests in the busy portion of the library. Also, I readjusted my sleep schedule 2 weeks before the LSAT.

My approach to reducing my anxiety was pretty intense, but it worked. Take from it what you will and I hope at least one thing will be able to help you. (Note: I think I posted something like this in another thread, but I don't know where it is anymore).

1. Visualization. I opened up a Word document and wrote out what the test day would be like in very vivid detail (i.e. walking to the test centre, waiting in line, talking to proctors etc.). It is particularly important to write down what you'll be feeling the day of (calm, composed, in control). I then recorded myself reading this aloud and would play back the recording from time to time. It helped me to fully visualize what to expect and drastically reduced my nerves.

We build up tests like the LSAT to a point where they seem insurmountable. My nerves were SO bad that I couldn't even think about the LSAT without my heart rate quickening. Listening to the recording for the first time, I started to sweat and felt like crying. By listening to it over and over again, I normalized the LSAT and test day. I wasn't worried about what to expect anymore and I was able to release a lot of my nervous energy.

2. Adopt a mantra/positive affirmation. I had two key phrases that I held in my mind if I felt myself losing confidence, becoming anxious, or having concentration issues. This needs to be a phrase that will refocus you. My confidence building phrase was "OWN this motherf*cker!" (yeah, not exactly zen haha, but it worked for me). My refocusing word was, quite simply, "FOCUS".

3. Visualize your score. Write the score that you want everywhere. Above your desk, on your mirror, wherever.

4. Cardio. Much of why we get so anxious is related to excess nervous energy and fears about failing. These thoughts can also keep us awake at night, preventing us from getting the sleep we need to conquer the exam. Anytime I felt nervous, I would go for a run or go biking. Literally, anytime. I think there were some days when I probably spent 3 hours doing some form of cardio. The day before the LSAT, I went on a day-long power walk with a close friend. After that, I didn't have the energy to fret and I slept very, very well.

5. Eat well. Seriously. I cut out refined sugar the month before the LSAT. Our mood and ability to cope with stressors (like the LSAT) is heavily dependent upon what we eat. My diet was full of protein, complex carbs, veggies, fruit, and legumes. The morning of, I had a very stabilizing, protein-rich breakfast. When we eat simple carbs, processed food, and food with added sugar, it's hard to keep a stable mood and it's easier for us to become more agitated.

6. Voice the worst case and best case scenario. Take a piece of paper and write down the absolute worst case. Let yourself be irrational. Just write down whatever comes to mind (e.g. I get 120, I don't get into law school, nobody will like me etc.). Read it back to yourself, aloud. Notice how silly it sounds? I found it helpful to be able to concretize these irrational thoughts that cause so much anxiety. Then, write down the best case scenario (e.g. I get the score I want, I get into my top choice, I become a lawyer etc.). Remember how it feels to hear yourself reading this aloud. If you start to notice negative thoughts creeping in (e.g. "That will never happen. You're going to mess it up"), stop yourself and ask WHY. WHY do you necessarily have to screw up? Track your thought process to target where the negativity and subsequent anxiety is coming from.

7. Study. Be prepared. This will help build your confidence and skill base. Remind yourself of your high practice test scores. Treat it like your test day score. I remember screaming "F*CK YES!!!" in the public library when I marked one of my practice tests because I was so happy with my score. I often reminded myself of this particular moment when I started having doubts about my abilities.

8. Someone else on LS.ca wrote this and it was tremendously helpful to me: The LSAT you'll be writing will be just another practice test in a month. LSAC isn't going to trick you. The LSAT isn't going to be any different. Think of it as just that: a practice test.

9. And, as I said, don't do anything LSAT related a few days before the LSAT.

Edited by dlb, 17 January 2012 - 09:18 PM.

[orion88]

It's actually pretty simple...

1) are you planning on going anywhere that averages LSAT scores? If so, don't write in June - but it's Jan. right now...IMO it would make the most sense to slack off in one class that your already good in, study for the LSAT, write in June, Oct, Dec. 1 class vs. LSAT score, LSAT score wins every time.

2) are you scoring around 160 in your practice test? Write it.

3) Even if your not scoring 160 refer back to 1. Data consistently shows that test takers score better the second time around on average, so if your not scoring 160+ in your practice test, and your not applying to places that average, it really wouldn't hurt to write it.

- I really want to emphasize the importance your LSAT will make though, you shouldn't assume that you'll get a great score the first, or even second time, you should plan to write it three times - I think you should replace the time you would spend on 1 class with LSAT study time and take the June. 1 class grade being a B+ vs. A- etc. is negligible to even a 1 point LSAT score difference

[Catalyst]

+1 dlb.

Also, if you're feeling anxious before a PT or on test day, try warming up. Bring an easy section and/or one you've done before and just run through it quickly a little while before starting. Don't mark it at all, just get the feel for the test, getting right answers, and get a sense of things "locking into place". I revisited old LG sections en route to my second LSAT sitting and found it to be a great anxiety buster. It made a huge difference in my pre-test confidence, since a lot of
my panicked thoughts were founded in unrealistic fears about my own abilities and the difficulty of the test. Re-visiting at that point reminded me of past successes and it gave me a more realistic perspective.

[Fork2]

I had a problem with anxiety, too. The first time I wrote I scored 158. And, I walked out of the test knowing I did. I was super upset with myself because I knew that I had scored lower than I had PTed. I was silently freaking out during the test. And then I started to freak out about the fact that I was freaking out, and then I became aware of the regression, and thought about that too.

That was the Oct. test. I didn't study for the Dec. test until I say my score. And, even then, in the 5 weeks remaining, I didn't study crazily. I did a few more PTs and spent some time drilling. But I didn't go crazy. My attitude toward the test changed. I told myself that I could do something else with my life that I'd find equally interesting.

My score went up to 165 in Dec. A lot of it, I think, was just being less nervous, I think. Funny, I still think I could do better. But, I'm not going to bother.

So, for me, I think I had to write it twice. I had to feel it out once, and do it again. Maybe you do too?

In both instances, I didn't completely conquer my anxiety. I still only got 2.5 hours sleep before each test. But I'm with the Orion88. I think if you plan to write it more than once, and you do, it'll help with your anxiety.

Thank god most schools look at your best score, eh?

Note: I'm using *thank god* as a cultural expression. I'm not religious. I wish I could change my name now. I created soon after spending a lot of time in Saudi.

Edited by Osgoode_inshallah, 18 January 2012 - 04:03 PM.

[antioppressivepractice]

Osgoode_inshallah, on 18 January 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Thank god most schools look at your best score, eh?

Note: I'm using *thank god* as a cultural expression. I'm not religious. I wish I could change my name now. I created soon after spending a lot of time in Saudi.

I think you can request a name change on one of the sections on this forum. I know this post was from a while ago so I don't know if this policy still holds true:
http://lawstudents.c...86-name-change/

I like your name

[muffins]

Write october. Don't jump into LSAT course. They can be, usually are, a huge waste of money. Get PS LG Bible and whatever reading comp and LR.

[headlines]

So I wrote the Mock LSAT offered by Princeton Review and scored a 145. Although I wrote it right after working an 8 hour shift, obviously this is not good news. Should I be concerned? Also, I believe it would be in my best interest to study all summer and write in October now. Would anyone disagree?

Thanks

[yoni45]

Was it cold? As in, have you done any prep for it prior at all?

If it was, then a 145 isn't too bad a place to start from at all. Start studying, get familiar with the test and the format, and once you're well into it you can get a better gauge of where you stand.

[Ammo]

headlines, on 31 January 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

So I wrote the Mock LSAT offered by Princeton Review and scored a 145. Although I wrote it right after working an 8 hour shift, obviously this is not good news. Should I be concerned? Also, I believe it would be in my best interest to study all summer and write in October now. Would anyone disagree?

I think that's a good idea. Don't be too concerned about your first score. With time and work you can drastically improve it, especially once you learn some of the strategic tricks that can grab you extra points.

A note on prep courses: Some people claim they're a waste of money but I think it depends on the student. I took the Oxford Seminar course and I found it really useful.

One studying tip that I think is really important: Once you have the basic skills and strategies you need, do as many FULL timed practice tests as you can. Try to simulate the real test as much as possible. This means do the three 35 minute sections without a break, then take your 10 minutes - no more - and do the rest, including the writing sample. A major factor in LSAT success is stamina. You need to train your brain for a marathon, and doing a practice section here and then another a couple hours later just won't cut it. Personally, the two weeks leading up to the test I tried to do full PTs at approximately the time of morning the real test would be every day. Conditioning can be powerful.

[headlines]

Yes it was done cold. I've never picked up an LSAT book or done any prep whatsoever. I'm really hoping I can bump my score 20 points when it's all said and done. Is this a real possibility? In terms of, are jumps that large found often?

[aidie]

headlines, on 31 January 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

Yes it was done cold. I've never picked up an LSAT book or done any prep whatsoever. I'm really hoping I can bump my score 20 points when it's all said and done. Is this a real possibility? In terms of, are jumps that large found often?

Yes, it is a possibility. Your first score doesn't really matter. With enough practice it can be done.

[yoni45]

headlines, on 31 January 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

Yes it was done cold. I've never picked up an LSAT book or done any prep whatsoever. I'm really hoping I can bump my score 20 points when it's all said and done. Is this a real possibility? In terms of, are jumps that large found often?

A diagnostic can go in a lot of directions -- it definitely happens, although it quite often also doesn't. Assume the worst, push as hard as you can, but you might very well find yourself picking up the material and moving up pretty quickly.

Edited by yoni45, 01 February 2012 - 05:44 PM.