27 replies to this topic

[Bike Tester]

I heard a rumour from a friend that Ottawa U realized the increase to 300 was a mistake and is planning on scaling back their class size to around 200 this cycle. Is there any truth to this whatsoever? I can't find anything about it on their site.

[muffins]

I doubt it. I worked on several university budgetary committees during my BA as a student advisor. Cutting a class size by 100 would so drastically change the financial situation of the school that I doubt it would be done over one year. It is possible, but unlikely.

[Thrillhouse]

There was an interview with the dean in the Inter Peres (sp?) a few weeks ago where he said the increase has resulted in more cash for the faculty, and they'll be keeping it that way. Knowing U of O and its funding problems, I can't see them cutting class size and trying to lay people off.

[Geon]

^sounds about right, universities want more students to get more $$$ they have no regard for if you can get a job after.

[muffins]

I will not be accepting ottawa based solely On their huge and growing class's size.

[erinl2]

Just curious. Is 300 an inclusive number for all 1Ls?

[UpAboveIt715]

erinl2, on 19 December 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

Just curious. Is 300 an inclusive number for all 1Ls?

I believe English Common Law lets in about 280.

Add to that 50-80 from the French Common Law section.

Add to that 30-50 doing the national program (Civil and Common Law in 1)

Add to that the approx 5 that come from MSU.

And we have a crazy amount of students.

Do I wish that I went someplace else?

Yes.

[schroed]

Wow, that's double the size of our 1L class. To be fair though, am I not mistaken in assuming that you're not actually competing for jobs with everyone, since a good number of them will go for jobs in QC?

[muffins]

That's crazy. Most schools in Ontario have between 150-175. I will go there.

[remit]

UpAboveIt715, on 19 December 2011 - 07:20 AM, said:

I believe English Common Law lets in about 280.

Add to that 50-80 from the French Common Law section.

Add to that 30-50 doing the national program (Civil and Common Law in 1)

Add to that the approx 5 that come from MSU.

And we have a crazy amount of students.

Do I wish that I went someplace else?

Yes.

Don't forget the 200 or so Civil kids each year as well. Although we don't compete with them, they take up a hella lot of room in the building and they're annoying as well

[remit]

schroed, on 19 December 2011 - 08:11 AM, said:

Wow, that's double the size of our 1L class. To be fair though, am I not mistaken in assuming that you're not actually competing for jobs with everyone, since a good number of them will go for jobs in QC?

No, the numbers UAI quoted are for Common Law faculty only as far as I can tell. The ppl going for jobs in QC will be in the Civil Law Faculty...aside from maybe a handful of the national program people

[pk_00]

So around 585 - 615 common law students (50 of which doing civil + common law) + 200 civil law students in one year. Yikes. Good luck when articling rolls around.

[muffins]

pk_00, on 19 December 2011 - 12:10 PM, said:

So around 585 - 615 common law students (50 of which doing civil + common law) + 200 civil law students in one year. Yikes. Good luck when articling rolls around.

No kidding. Plus McGill around the corner.

[WannaBeLaw99]

remit, on 19 December 2011 - 08:20 AM, said:

Don't forget the 200 or so Civil kids each year as well. Although we don't compete with them, they take up a hella lot of room in the building and they're annoying as well

Annoying how?

[lawlady1985]

I agree that the class size is far too big, especially considering that Ottawa doesn't even place that many people at the big firms. (Usually 1 or 2 at each). However, to be fair, a very significant portion of Ottawa students summer and article in Ottawa, South Eastern Ontario, and Montreal. So its not like 300 kids are applying to the same Toronto jobs. Still, if Toronto is your goal, and you attend Ottawa, you have your work cut out for you.

Edit: One other thing to add - far less people from Ottawa apply to Toronto for articling than they do during Toronto OCIs. This is because the Ottawa articulating recruitment schedule is before Toronto, and with OCI's, Toronto is before Ottawa. Thus, you automatically take away a good chunk of applicants during articling recruitment.

Edited by lawlady1985, 19 December 2011 - 12:56 PM.

[erinl2]

pk_00, on 19 December 2011 - 12:10 PM, said:

So around 585 - 615 common law students (50 of which doing civil + common law) + 200 civil law students in one year. Yikes. Good luck when articling rolls around.

I'm not sure where you came up with those numbers, given what's been posted above.

In any case, the number isn't much different than the size of Osgoode. Class size, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a negative. If it was, then I suppose that none of you would have any interest in attending many of the top U.S. law schools.

[jmcazabon]

erinl2, on 19 December 2011 - 12:57 PM, said:

I'm not sure where you came up with those numbers, given what's been posted above.

In any case, the number isn't much different than the size of Osgoode. Class size, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a negative. If it was, then I suppose that none of you would have any interest in attending many of the top U.S. law schools.

snap

anyway, unless the circumstances are really different from undergrad to law-school, I've never felt any problems going to a big school (went [I can used past tense now!] to UO) in terms of knowing people/profs/personal attention. Hell, I've talked obscure math-rock bands from Montreal, gone drinking, and seen my profs at concerts during my undergrad. Though the articling thing could be a problem though I guess, but hey its Ottawa, government jobs!

Edited by jmcazabon, 19 December 2011 - 03:36 PM.

[tng11]

erinl2, on 19 December 2011 - 12:57 PM, said:

In any case, the number isn't much different than the size of Osgoode. Class size, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a negative. If it was, then I suppose that none of you would have any interest in attending many of the top U.S. law schools.

Exactly. I don't think people who get into Harvard would turn it down just because they have some 500 1Ls every year.

[pk_00]

erinl2, on 19 December 2011 - 12:57 PM, said:

I'm not sure where you came up with those numbers, given what's been posted above.

In any case, the number isn't much different than the size of Osgoode. Class size, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a negative. If it was, then I suppose that none of you would have any interest in attending many of the top U.S. law schools.

haha, sorry, i added the civil law numbers in too. should have been 410 common law + 200 civil law.

[remit]

WannaBeLaw99, on 19 December 2011 - 12:19 PM, said:

Annoying how?

Obviously was a generalization but for the most part they're straight out of CEGEP so they're in their late teens, early twenties. I'm quite a bit older than that and the high school/undergrad outlook they have irritates me (which is why I stay off campus as much as I can). I know some really good civil ppl so this isn't to be taken as a sleight on all of them but they're just too young for me to relate to or even understand...

[Lawl]

I know i'm in the minority, but i enjoyed large classes at U of T because:
a ) it affords more freedom, e.g. skipping, talking, etc
b ) it reduces the number of sycophants always asking questions and being all around awful human beings
c ) less emphasis on presentations/group work and more on written tests

Edited by Lawl, 21 December 2011 - 08:45 AM.

[palmtrees1]

WannaBeLaw99, on 19 December 2011 - 12:19 PM, said:

Annoying how?

I agree. They are extremely annoying. You can tell them apart just by looking at them.

[jmcazabon]

Lawl, on 21 December 2011 - 08:45 AM, said:

I know i'm in the minority, but i enjoyed large classes at U of T because:
a ) it affords more freedom, e.g. skipping, talking, etc
b ) it reduces the number of sycophants always asking questions and being all around awful human beings
c ) less emphasis on presentations/group work and more on written tests

you have said so much that I feel right there,
We may be soul-mates.

[Bifster]

There are 302 of us exactly in English Common Law first year. The only side effect I can tell is that the profs are having more a difficult time getting to know us by name! As for the French CL and Civil , not sure of their numbers. Good Luck everyone!

[NewAccount2012]

Actually, the problem with big class sizes is quite serious at Ottawa U. Why? Because of the funding issues. The building is falling apart, the elevators are always in a state of disrepair, the ancient classrooms don’t have plugs (good luck charging your laptop), the administration is overwhelmed and cannot deal with such a large number of students etc.

All my Ottawa U friends complain about all the above. All are funding issues that could be relieved with smaller class sizes.

[muffins]

Class size is the single reason why I will not be attending Ottawa. They really need to reduce the size of the classes or increase the size of the facilities and resources.

[theiva4]

similar reasons for me as well. And Ottawa's articling rates are the worst in the province, too many students not enough spots. Eventhough I have heard that Oz has too many students they are definetly not lacking in funding.

[kf203]

theiva4, on 29 January 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

similar reasons for me as well. And Ottawa's articling rates are the worst in the province, too many students not enough spots. Eventhough I have heard that Oz has too many students they are definetly not lacking in funding.

Just a quick point about articling rates: The number of articling spots has nothing to do with U of Ottawa. That is a problem around the province. Ottawa's numbers are fairly comparable to other schools in the province if you look at it relative to the number of students I do believe.

Also articling rates will depend on a number of factors such as
1) the number of students who choose not to pursue articling (as a 3L I can tell you this is more common than you would think)
2) the number of students who pursue a career in another jurisdiction (these may or may not be included in the rate you have seen...depends where you got it from)
3) the number of students who pursue post-law degree studies such as an LL.M or MA
4) the area of law in which the students at that school are pursuing (for example, a school with lots of criminal law focused students will have a much lower rate of success in finding articles than a school where the majority of students are on the corporate/commercial path)

I can tell you that while there are still a number of us that I know of looking for articling positions for next year, it is very unlikely it is because of the school we attended. I'm just about done my degree at U of O and I don't think the size of my classes has affected my learning at all.