17 replies to this topic

[2na]

Strong interest in business law, looking to go the Bay St. route. I know Dal has a great all-around rep, but from what I've been hearing Western has the advantage in business-related courses/clinics/etc. Any opinions? I'm torn here, please help!

[Mal]

Western for Bay Street. Corporate law is Westerns big strength, and it is in the region you want to practice (Ontario).

[aerine]

Western, easy. You're going to want to be nearby for the firm tours, interviews, receptions, etc, and Western is Bay St oriented in general. I have yet to go through OCI's myself but I would assume there are more Bay St firms that come to Western than Dal, because of our reputation and location.

[muffins]

If I may revive this thread. I am in the same position as the OP; I want to go the BaySt route, and I am accepted at both Western and Dal. I would be much, much happier in Halifax for three years, but Western seems like the better career choice.

Would I face a serious uphill battle getting to BaySt from Dal?

Thanks.

[wilkens]

muffins, on 22 February 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

If I may revive this thread. I am in the same position as the OP; I want to go the BaySt route, and I am accepted at both Western and Dal. I would be much, much happier in Halifax for three years, but Western seems like the better career choice.

Would I face a serious uphill battle getting to BaySt from Dal?

Thanks.

Well obviously it is easier to land a job on Bay St from Western because those firms hire more from that school than Dal simply based on its location.

However, if you would be happier at Dal go there and just make sure early on you establish some connections at firms on Bay St that you would be interesting in working at and you should be fine. Of course get goods grades too so they have a reason to interview you.

Edited by wilkens, 22 February 2012 - 08:04 AM.

[Phoenix-Wright]

Does Western Law in any way associate itself with...purple pride? As a Golden Gael (Queen's), the thought of attending Western for Law School makes my stomach queasy. I would feel so dirty.

I also don't think I have enough shirts with pop-able collars. This is unfortunate, as Western is probably one of the Ontario schools that is a serious option for me next cycle.

[zzzzz]

Phoenix-Wright, on 22 February 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Does Western Law in any way associate itself with...purple pride? As a Golden Gael (Queen's), the thought of attending Western for Law School makes my stomach queasy. I would feel so dirty.

I also don't think I have enough shirts with pop-able collars. This is unfortunate, as Western is probably one of the Ontario schools that is a serious option for me next cycle.

While I assume most of this is tongue-in-cheek, western law is separated from the undergrad "popped collar" scene both physically and in terms of social events, etc. If you go to western law, you will not be surrounded by the type of people you're envisioning. Whether good or bad, most law students look and act the same. Also, the school spirit at western law is nowhere near as rampid as in undergrad. Don't forget that the overwhelming majority of people at western law will have gone to another undergrad, and therefore might be as reluctant as you are to buy into the "western mustangs" scene. In fact, some students still wear their undergrad clothing to law school...at least one does so daily.

Don't forgo western law simply because you think the law school would attract the type of people that constitute 5% of the undergraduate population.

[PurpleMustang]

Phoenix-Wright, on 22 February 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Does Western Law in any way associate itself with...purple pride? As a Golden Gael (Queen's), the thought of attending Western for Law School makes my stomach queasy. I would feel so dirty.

I also don't think I have enough shirts with pop-able collars. This is unfortunate, as Western is probably one of the Ontario schools that is a serious option for me next cycle.

I'v heard mixed things about Western Law in regards to this. I know a few people who are at Western Law now, and none of them fit the "Western stereotype" that you're worried about. In fact, many undergraduate students at Western don't fit that stereotype. It's simply the ones that do fit the stereotype that get noticed.

Western Law really is separate from the undergraduate community. They have absolutely no connection to the undergraduates at Western, with the exception of clubs like the Pre-Law Society (some law students will help out with these). I know that Western Law students like to go to the bars one night per week (from what I've heard from friends), but they're by no means full of "purple pride". The undergraduates have enough of that for everyone.

[muffins]

wilkens, on 22 February 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

Well obviously it is easier to land a job on Bay St from Western because those firms hire more from that school than Dal simply based on its location.

However, if you would be happier at Dal go there and just make sure early on you establish some connections at firms on Bay St that you would be interesting in working at and you should be fine. Of course get goods grades too so they have a reason to interview you.

Thanks Wilkens.

Does learning different provincial Law (NS for example) present a difficult boundary to working in other provinces (writing the Bar Exams, hiring etc.)?

[asfxxx]

muffins, on 22 February 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

If I may revive this thread. I am in the same position as the OP; I want to go the BaySt route, and I am accepted at both Western and Dal. I would be much, much happier in Halifax for three years, but Western seems like the better career choice.

Would I face a serious uphill battle getting to BaySt from Dal?

Thanks.

most if not all big law firms do OCIs at Dal. You have the same opportunity to impress them as you would at Western. Once you sit down at the OCI the school you go to is irrelevant and it's just on you.

[conge]

This opinion is nearly all hearsay and based on the conventional wisdom I could pick up in 3 years at Dal:

Want to work in corporate law on Bay St.? Go to Western.
Want a well rounded law school experience that will give you a decent shot at corporate law on Bay St./everywhere else? Go to Dal.

Note: I've heard from people "in the know" that students from Dal aren't as "polished" as other grads, especially when compared to Western/ON students who want to work on Bay. I dunno what this means excatly, but I think it means our resusmes, cover letters, dress, demeanor, etc. just aren't as professional as other students who are interviewing on Bay St.

[muffins]

Thanks guys.

[Lawyerslawyer]

I have gone to dal for undergrad, and now I go to western for law; and I would suggest western for law if you want job prospects (the reasons are listed in about a half dozen places on this board). I'm still a Dal tiger at heart (was on the track team), but western is superb for corporate. Also, Western law is practically isolated and distinct from the undergrad culture. I only get within 10 feet of undergrads either on the bus or when I get a grilled cheese from the spoke. It is like its own little world - and for good or bad - I don't have a single undergrad friend. There are few opportunities to mingle (unless you go out of your way). So while I enjoyed myself for the better part of 5 years at dal, I bet the law culture is very much the same - therefore you are left with comparing the law opportunities and not so much the douche-bag/pop collar vs laid back/hipster debate. You will enjoy yourself at either school...

my 2 cents.

[muffins]

Are job prospects poorer for Dal grads?

[asfxxx]

conge, on 24 February 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

Note: I've heard from people "in the know" that students from Dal aren't as "polished" as other grads, especially when compared to Western/ON students who want to work on Bay. I dunno what this means excatly, but I think it means our resusmes, cover letters, dress, demeanor, etc. just aren't as professional as other students who are interviewing on Bay St.

I don't understand how you can possibly attribute personal characteristics of individuals like dress, demeanour, and effort put into applications to the school they attend. Even if you could, there are tons of Dal students working on Bay, big law in Van, clerking etc.

I also don't understand all this "job prospect" garbage people talk about on here -- A person's ability to get a job is predominantly dependent on that individual, and very little else. I could see the argument being made for UofT/Osgoode because firms interview twice as many students at these schools than the rest, so the grade cut off to get an OCI is presumably lower, but otherwise, I find it extremely difficult to believe that a firm is going to overlooking a crappy application and a crappy personality because the applicant goes to UofT much less Western. It's even more unbelievable that a firm is going to overlook a stellar application and a great personality because the applicant goes to Dal.

Edited by asfxxx, 25 February 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[conge]

Quote

I don't understand how you can possibly attribute personal characteristics of individuals like dress, demeanour, and effort put into applications to the school they attend.

Look at this this way: Take all the Dal students who apply to Bay St. firms, then take all the UofT and Western students who apply to Bay St. firms and compare them. Which schools, on average, have the most prepared students? I've heard from friends who have been recuiting at these large Bay St. firms that Dal grads, on average, aren't as prepared (for a variety of reasons including the ones I've mentioned).

asfxxx, on 25 February 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

I find it extremely difficult to believe that a firm is going to overlooking a crappy application and a crappy personality because the applicant goes to UofT much less Western.

Well, I think that's just it, on average, students from Western/UofT don't usually have crappy applications or interviewing skills because they are more prepared for the hiring process as compared to Dal students.

Sure, Dal students do well on Bay St. and everywhere else.They all get jobs on their individual talents (because they've put in the time to prepare themselves), but on average, students from Dal don't come to the process as well prepared/informed/ready as other schools do.

I think it has to do with the CDO at Dal not preparing students as well as it should, the fact that not all students will take it upon them selves to be really prepared for the job process, and the geographic location and culture of Dal - it's just not that plugged into Bay St. as other schools (and personally, I think that is a good thing).

Quote

Are job prospects poorer for Dal grads?

No, they're not. Almost everyone I know at Dal has articles lined up. I would guess that less than 10% of the class are actively looking and don't have articles. I don't think Dal places as many students on Bay as UofT or Western, but I think this is for a variety of reasons, and Dal places students well across the country. Just keep in mind, you're in Halifax and not physically or culturally close to Bay St., and so some extra "leg work" might be necessary to get into the market you want - but I think this is true of all Dal students who don't want to work in Atlantic Canada.

Edited by conge, 25 February 2012 - 09:13 AM.

[muffins]

I am about to accept my offer to Dal. Before I sent the money, I decided to do some research on the big firms in Canada and see how well each school is represented. Western outpaces Dal at every single firm I've researched, some by huge margins. I want to accept Dal for a variety of reasons, but I keep doubting myself.

Any insight into how I should look at these numbers? I feel like I am crazy not going to Western if I want to work in Big Law?



Western
Dalhousie
Torys
35
15
McMillan
46
17
Davies
29
3
McCarthy
30
21
Osler
52
27
Fasken
53
39
Miller Thompson
61
3
Stikeman
25
15

[emie]

Muffins,

I am personally a fan of both schools- so definitely a hard decision...but as for those numbers...a possible explanation could be that not as many people at Dal are interested in big law work? They have more varied strengths, so I feel like the class would have a greater range of interests than at UWO. So maybe those numbers are more a representation of the interest at each school? Western is definitely strong at corporate law, but I imagine if you put the work in at either school..and that is really what you want to do- then you'll find a way of doing it.

Good luck with your decision!