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Uriel

To the 1Ls, on the occasion of their first exams

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58 minutes ago, thegoodlaw said:

I wasn't attacking court staff -- in most of my dealings they have been pleasant and helpful, especially in helping a lost articling student with a lot of stupid questions.

My real frustration lies with the administration of court services and how unbelievably inefficient, convoluted, and backwards it is. I think this (amazing) decision sums it up: https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2012/2012onsc1727/2012onsc1727.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAOMjAxMiBPTlNDIDE3MjcAAAAAAQ&resultIndex=1

Tried to hedge against that in my last sentence there!  Didn't mean to make any insinuations --- just addressing the common refrain.

In terms of that decision, I would pay good money to know what happened to the e-filing pilot project from about a decade ago.  (Also, you are all going to really miss out on having access to Justice Brown as a trial judge at the Commercial List.)

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52 minutes ago, providence said:

[13]           The real solution?  Consign our paper-based document management system to the scrap heap of history and equip this Court with a modern, electronic document system. 

The contrast between Ontario courts (and no doubt those in other provinces) and best practices is mind-boggling. I've been following an obscure US Federal criminal case (personal interest) and every thing that goes into the court is available online (for a nominal per page fee - which they wave if you stay below a quarterly threshold) through their Pacer system, often in near real time. The contrast between that and Canadian court files in terms of efficiency, cost and transparency is mind-boggling. You'd almost like to see Canadian courts order the government to find out who set up the pacer system and hire them. 

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3 minutes ago, maximumbob said:

The contrast between Ontario courts (and no doubt those in other provinces) and best practices is mind-boggling. I've been following an obscure US Federal criminal case (personal interest) and every thing that goes into the court is available online (for a nominal per page fee - which they wave if you stay below a quarterly threshold) through their Pacer system, often in near real time. The contrast between that and Canadian court files in terms of efficiency, cost and transparency is mind-boggling. You'd almost like to see Canadian courts order the government to find out who set up the pacer system and hire them. 

This isn't limited only to the justice system. Remember that 1 billion we spent on e-health (and probably more in the 5-10 years since) to come up with an electronic system for sharing medical records between physicians and hospitals? When was the last time you heard of success along that front? Thank God we still have fax machines...

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9 hours ago, kiamia said:

This isn't limited only to the justice system. Remember that 1 billion we spent on e-health (and probably more in the 5-10 years since) to come up with an electronic system for sharing medical records between physicians and hospitals? When was the last time you heard of success along that front? Thank God we still have fax machines...

The good news is electronic healthcare record sharing in the US is also abysmal and was a huge waste of money by the Obama administration. 

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17 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

The good news is electronic healthcare record sharing in the US is also abysmal and was a huge waste of money by the Obama administration. 

Was he trying to do it for the entire country? 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, kiamia said:

Was he trying to do it for the entire country? 

Yeah, long story short was that the Obama administration created incentives to create electronic healthcare records, with the assumption that medical professionals would obviously share these once they existed. Instead, everyone created their own electronic records to get the incentive but refused to share them, because there was no reason nor (free) system to do so. 

It's actually one of the few places ex-Obama officials will openly admit they messed up (this criticism isn't aimed at Obama officials in particular, just pointing out how rare it is for politicians and political operatives to admit that their policies outright failed). 

Edited by BlockedQuebecois

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I just had to recycle two entire bankers' boxes full of motion materials because the motion settled before the materials were filed.

If lawyers could not insist upon hard copies and courts did not require them, imagine the ecological impact that could make.  It wouldn't be world-changing, but it would sure be something.

I've heard people complain that there's a concern that if we go digital then documents can be more easily forged and affidavits changed after the fact.  Well, then, just expand the role of commissioners and notaries to keep certified copies.  There, you just added jobs to the workforce.

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57 minutes ago, Uriel said:

I just had to recycle two entire bankers' boxes full of motion materials because the motion settled before the materials were filed.

If lawyers could not insist upon hard copies and courts did not require them, imagine the ecological impact that could make.  It wouldn't be world-changing, but it would sure be something.

I've heard people complain that there's a concern that if we go digital then documents can be more easily forged and affidavits changed after the fact.  Well, then, just expand the role of commissioners and notaries to keep certified copies.  There, you just added jobs to the workforce.

It's horrible how many trees we kill in this line of work. 

My office scans as much disclosure, submissions and other paperwork as we can and we shred and recycle as much as possible. That way, there is a central database of everyone's files that we can all access, so if someone is unexpectedly sick or otherwise unavailable for court, or two of us are working on the same file, we can learn the file without the other person's input, and we can work from home or vacation without dragging files around - plus it's password protected etc so more secure. If our very small firm can do this I don't know why the government can't. 

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9 minutes ago, providence said:

If our very small firm can do this I don't know why the government can't

I think you answer your own question, unfortunately.

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Posted (edited)
On 1/5/2018 at 11:35 AM, providence said:

It's horrible how many trees we kill in this line of work. 

My office scans as much disclosure, submissions and other paperwork as we can and we shred and recycle as much as possible. That way, there is a central database of everyone's files that we can all access, so if someone is unexpectedly sick or otherwise unavailable for court, or two of us are working on the same file, we can learn the file without the other person's input, and we can work from home or vacation without dragging files around - plus it's password protected etc so more secure. If our very small firm can do this I don't know why the government can't. 

Providence is finally becoming a conservative. 

*beams with pride

*sheds a single tear of joy 

Edited by NYCLawyer
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On 1/4/2018 at 5:56 PM, maximumbob said:

The contrast between Ontario courts (and no doubt those in other provinces) and best practices is mind-boggling. I've been following an obscure US Federal criminal case (personal interest) and every thing that goes into the court is available online (for a nominal per page fee - which they wave if you stay below a quarterly threshold) through their Pacer system, often in near real time. The contrast between that and Canadian court files in terms of efficiency, cost and transparency is mind-boggling. You'd almost like to see Canadian courts order the government to find out who set up the pacer system and hire them. 

You need some Federal Court litigation my friend. Every entry is set out, you just call up and ask for a copy of Doc X from file no Y!

It's the royal palace compared to the slums of Ontario Court.

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On 12/29/2017 at 1:48 AM, Girby said:

Property is jammed into one term at UOttawa. I didn't mind the content but our final was a doozy. You could probably spend a term exclusively on estates or aboriginal title. Constitutional law can feel very abstract at times, but cases help you grapple with the ideas.

I think contracts and tort law are the most straightforward. 

1L at Ottawa. While the archaic feudal English terminology was irritating, I found my property final easy. Contracts wasn't bad either. Torts was killer. Not looking forward to Jan 17...

Edited by PerisoreusCanadensis

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23 hours ago, PerisoreusCanadensis said:

1L at Ottawa. While the archaic feudal English terminology was irritating, I found my property final easy. Contracts wasn't bad either. Torts was killer. Not looking forward to Jan 17...

I wouldn't take that as a sign of anything. Last year my Torts final was a total shitshow, a 2 hour sprint to the finish. It didn't help that the prof had told the class what the weighting was for each question in class and then changed it and added a question in the exam. I left my exam basically praying for a B. Got an 86 for an A. 

And that doesn't change, I left one exam last semester feeling fairly confident I had hit my points and did well, B grade. Left another and basically shrugged my shoulders, A. You can never really know. 

Edited by whoknows
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1 hour ago, whoknows said:

I wouldn't take that as a sign of anything. Last year my Torts final was a total shitshow, a 2 hour sprint to the finish. It didn't help that the prof had told the class what the weighting was for each question in class and then changed it and added a question in the exam. I left my exam basically praying for a B. Got an 86 for an A. 

And that doesn't change, I left one exam last semester feeling fairly confident I had hit my points and did well, B grade. Left another and basically shrugged my shoulders, A. You can never really know. 

Thanks for the encouragement.

Out of curiosity, do 1L mid-term grades appear on your transcripts post-1L? Say you get a C on a mid-term, but manage to get a B in the course overall after a stronger final exam performance. Would your transcripts show the mid-term + the final mark or just the final mark? I know it doesn't really matter because the final grade is the important indicator. I'm just curios...

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59 minutes ago, PerisoreusCanadensis said:

Thanks for the encouragement.

Out of curiosity, do 1L mid-term grades appear on your transcripts post-1L? Say you get a C on a mid-term, but manage to get a B in the course overall after a stronger final exam performance. Would your transcripts show the mid-term + the final mark or just the final mark? I know it doesn't really matter because the final grade is the important indicator. I'm just curios...

I've never heard of any transcripts having mid-term grades on them at all. Maybe unofficials that you'd use for 1L jobs but not official transcripts. I can't imagine any firm caring that the guy with an A- had a B at mid term, especially given the rollercoaster adjustment that is 1L. In fact, some law schools actively refuse even unofficial transcripts. 

Edited by whoknows
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1 hour ago, PerisoreusCanadensis said:

Thanks for the encouragement.

Out of curiosity, do 1L mid-term grades appear on your transcripts post-1L? Say you get a C on a mid-term, but manage to get a B in the course overall after a stronger final exam performance. Would your transcripts show the mid-term + the final mark or just the final mark? I know it doesn't really matter because the final grade is the important indicator. I'm just curios...

You're more likely to be fighting uphill to get any official proof you even got a certain midterm grade when it's the only thing you've got, never mind having it hanging around later.

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4 minutes ago, whoknows said:

I've never heard of any transcripts having mid-term grades on them at all. Maybe unofficials that you'd use for 1L jobs but not official transcripts. I can't imagine any firm caring that the guy with an A- had a B at mid term, especially given the rollercoaster adjustment that is 1L. In fact, some law schools actively refuse even unofficial transcripts. 

This is a good point, even if the mid-term grades are on your transcript - I think firms will look to your final grade in their assessment. 

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On 1/13/2018 at 3:41 PM, whoknows said:

I wouldn't take that as a sign of anything. Last year my Torts final was a total shitshow, a 2 hour sprint to the finish. It didn't help that the prof had told the class what the weighting was for each question in class and then changed it and added a question in the exam. I left my exam basically praying for a B. Got an 86 for an A. 

What do you know, got a B on my torts mid-term... Thought for sure that I would get a C. 

Thanks again for the encouragement!

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