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xdarkwhite last won the day on March 21

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  1. Waitlisted at U of T 2018

    Completely agree with you - confirmation bias is the phrase I think you're looking for. I mean even if you look at the discussions elsewhere on this forum (*ahem* Off-Topic discussions), no one's likely to ever change their point of view and especially not on something as subjective as the value placed on attending one law school over another. I would be fine with it if it was in a UofT vs. Oz or some other school comparison thread that would have been re-iterated for the thousandth time. But Harvey came to both the Waitlist and Rejected threads for UofT to say, "Y'all some desperate people looking for prestige" and trying to show that UofT's NY placement numbers aren't that good anyway. It's an open forum - he's free to say that just as everyone else is free to criticize him for it, but I'm all for getting this thread back on the rails - let's use it to get Waitlist data points, information regarding next steps, and questions related to that.
  2. Waitlisted at U of T 2018

    Did you come to the UofT Waitlist and Rejected threads just to paint everyone who wants to attend UofT with the broad brush that they're "pointlessly" taking on debt for prestige? Might as well do it in the Accepted thread too and make it 3/3. There are tons of reasons why someone would want to attend UofT over some other school rather than "prestige" - location, career opportunities, clinics, professors, school atmosphere, close friends going there... list goes on. You chose Osgoode (2017-2018 tuition at $26k) over Queen's/Western/Ottawa (tuition at $19k/$22k/$18k) which you admit all of which can place you on Bay if you try hard enough. If everything is just a "choose the cheapest option", then why'd you choose Osgoode to take on "pointless" debt? Also, UofT has the most generous financial aid program out of any of the Ontario schools. For example, Ottawa's bursary program for law students if you're eligible is Year 1: $2,000, Year 2&3: $1,500. UofT Law's bursary program, which was given out to 50% of all students, averages $10,900 per student per year for 2017-2018. If you qualify for financial aid, UofT also pays a portion (if not all) your interest on the PSLOC while in school. If you graduate and make less than $60k a year, UofT covers a significant portion of your debt through their PDRP (which is on a sliding scale as your salary goes up). Don't get me wrong, there are people who only consider prestige and choose a school based on that. But I think it's pretty frivolous to come to the UofT threads and think anyone who wants to attend UofT is only doing it for prestige. If you came and said "Hey look, it's not that bad that you got waitlisted/rejected, at least you won't be paying all that debt!" in good humour, that's fine. But unless I (and many others) have misinterpreted your comments, you didn't - you came and said "Look at all these fools thinking a degree from UofT Law is worth the price."
  3. Taking a Year Off to Apply

    Haha, please take those Welcome Day numbers with a grain of salt. This was just me estimating based on the number of hands up when the Dean asked how many people are currently finishing their fourth year vs. those who are currently working. 😝 I think I understand a little more clearly the position you're in. Would your stats significantly change if you waited a cycle (such as B3 GPA being much higher, retaking LSAT for 3+ point increase)? Keep in mind the medians for last year was 3.8 B3 and 166 LSAT. If you're applying with the same stats and you didn't get in this year, you'll unlikely get in next year so waiting a year won't really help. In that case, I'd suggest taking up an offer at another school. If you think you could top the medians when reapplying and UofT really is your dream school, then it might be worth waiting a cycle. It might also be worth asking yourself why UofT is your dream and comparing it with the schools you have offers to. Is it due to the area of law you want to practice? School clinics/internships/opportunities? Atmosphere? Like you said, it's a risk you have to weigh out if you do decide to sit a year out and there's really no bad law school in Canada. Good luck with your decision and your incoming offers!
  4. Taking a Year Off to Apply

    Absolutely fair point there, and I'm certain there is some correlation. However, Harvard's entering class has 66% of students with 2+ years out of their undergrad, Columbia has 62%, and Yale has 46% 3+ years out of their undergrad (with 38% 1-2 years out). I can't imagine these people dedicated 2+ years solely to studying and retaking the LSAT, especially considering the 3 sittings in 5 years rule was only gotten rid of this past year. Plus, the lower T14 (which some say UofT is comparable to?) has numbers around 60%+ who have "1+ years of postgraduate experience" with median matriculation ages of 24-25. I acknowledge that these numbers are probably skewed since I'm only looking at the top-ranked, land-a-job-anywhere-even-those-unicorn-ones schools. They are especially picky in tailoring their entering class profiles, especially YLS and SLS which are a black box for admissions, even for applicants above both 75ths. Nonetheless, I think the point still stands that taking a year off (if used wisely - i.e. work experience) is not detrimental and in many cases helpful to an application (or at the very least, to discovering more about yourself which can help out your personal statement).
  5. Taking a Year Off to Apply

    No! They mean that almost everyone finishes their degree by the time they enter law school (i.e. those applying in their fourth year going straight to law school as a K-JD would count here). The five very exceptional students they mention would have applied in their third year and never have finished their undergraduate degree at all. However, as an aside, you do get an advantage applying to UofT if you take a year off - you get your best 3 years calculated as the GPA they consider (especially because most people do their best during their last 3 years of university), whereas if you apply in your fourth year, your B3 is your first 3 years because you haven't finished your fourth year yet. As a second aside, I highly recommend taking a year or two off to gain work experience before going into law school, especially if you're not quite sure about going into law. I definitely would not consider that a "waste" of a year and can add to your application to make it more competitive (to a very slight degree in the form of softs/personal statement). It will also likely help with OCIs and the hiring process having been through it before. At the Welcome Day for UofT, something like 40% of the people attending were out of school for at least a year. If you look at the top-tier schools in the US, majority of the entering class have been out of school for at least a year (i.e. 81% of Harvard's class, 79% of Columbia's, UChicago has an average entering age of 24, Yale only has 16% directly from undergrad, etc.). Either way, good luck!
  6. Waitlisted at U of T 2018

    Isn't there a trial by combat option in the email? Let's hope you've been sharpening those PUBG skills...
  7. Waitlisted at U of T 2018

    Please take this with a grain of salt because I have no inside information with the admissions process at all, but I'm almost certain that unranked waitlist =/= random lottery. Also to note that a considerable number of schools in the US do unranked waitlists (for undergrad/law/med). Keep in mind that schools that "holistically" look at applicants admit them based on more than just numbers - they are trying to craft a class that have diverse backgrounds whom they believe will contribute to success in law school and in the profession (given that they meet a certain GPA/LSAT stats criteria). Since EC's, work experience, and personal statements are really hard to quantify, I think in that regard they don't rank the waitlisted people. UofT's AdComm is likely waiting to see who accepts their offers and then re-evaluate the entire pool of waitlisted applicants to see who matches the profiles they're looking for. From previous years' threads, it seems like when a spot opens up, UofT calls or emails certain people on the waitlist to see if they're still interested and then does a re-evaluation of applications from there, sometimes even up to as late as a week before orientation in August. Hoping for the best and good luck!
  8. Accepted to U of T 2018

    Just a head's up from the UofT admissions tumblr: Decisions for this final round will be going out through the next week. All decisions for completed files will be given by March 26th, 2018: (1) Offer of admission, (2) Placed on a waitlist, (3) Not competitive for admission. http://84queenspark.tumblr.com/ Good luck for all those waiting! Rooting for ya.
  9. I'm in 0L so I can't really speak for the law school experience but I was in similar shoes as you a year ago. I was debating between diving straight into law school or taking some time to work and ultimately decided on the latter. I currently work in finance (albeit not i-banking or PE or anything that'll get me a yacht in five years). I'm actually enjoying it. I've met some incredible coworkers, learned a ton, and it's a fun office environment. Despite all of that though, the past few months helped me realize how much more I want to go to law school and work in the legal field. It just seems more intellectually stimulating, less monotonous, and more observably rewarding. There's going to be uncertainty no matter what you do. You have a current job offer but it's still going to be uncertain on promotions/exit opportunities. I always recommend people who are unsure if they want to do law or not to get some work experience and figure out if there's something else that piques their interest before going to law school. However, it sounds to me though that you are pretty certain that you dislike the finance position and pretty set on doing law but you're just not sure if you'll succeed in it. To that point, if you did well enough on your LSAT and undergrad GPA to be admitted to UofT, you're pretty much starting off at the same point as anyone else entering 1L (which is not a bad place to start, seeing that something like 50% of UofT students get Toronto big law and 10% get NY if that's what you're looking to get into). The fact that you performed well enough in the hiring process to be offered a position in finance means you already have a leg up on applying and interviewing for the OCI process. Maybe you'll discover a field of law that you're really good at and really like - I'd take my chances for that over doing something I terribly dislike for the rest of my life (or the next few years at least).
  10. Well - maybe I was misinformed but someone was just accepted in the Accepted group so perhaps they are still sending offers and the admissions officer just wanted to make me feel better.
  11. Just gave the admissions office a call. They didn't refer to it specifically as a "waitlist" but told me that they've actually overextended their admissions offers and will be waiting until the first round of admits accept or decline (deadline of March 15) before continuing their admissions offers, including to those who have new scores from the Feb LSAT (which they haven't completely processed yet either). They also confirmed my GPA on file. In case you're wondering, for me it was 82.86. I have a 165 LSAT which leads to a self-calculated index score of 91.55. Because March 15 is only a week away, I'll wait a little longer but I'll likely withdraw from the waitlist to open my spot up. Best of luck!
  12. It’s kind of a double edged sword for me. I grew up thinking (and to some extent, still think) that people can achieve "success" (however that's defined) if they put in the work for it. My parents came to Canada with almost nothing. They worked their lives away to provide me and my siblings with opportunity. We grew up on stories of underdog successes; of the Steve Jobs and J.K. Rowlings of the world. We stayed up to watch Barack Obama’s victory speech in 2008 and my mom told me that if a black person could become the President of the United States, anyone could really be anything they set out to be. For me, it wasn’t that I was a special snowflake who deserved everything I wanted in the world; rather, it was that if I wasn’t determined and driven I deserved nothing. I wasn’t told that I was smart, instead I was told that I could be smart. In my head, I translated it to mean that if I didn’t try at all, all their sacrifices they made were for nothing. On one hand, it pushed me hard and still pushes me today. In elementary and high school, I got top grades, played sports, played instruments, and got super involved in student clubs. To go against @healthlaw ‘s point, I savoured (constructive) criticism to improve myself all the time. Maybe it was natural aptitude, maybe it was my acquired drive, most likely it was both. On the other hand, despite knowing that the world owed me nothing and that someone could play all the cards right just to lose nonetheless, I think I did grow a sense of self-entitlement. During undergraduate admissions, I was rejected/waitlisted from the top Ivies and US schools which at the time was my misguided measure of success. At first, it broke me pretty hard and I felt like the world had done me some great injustice. Eventually, I took a healthier approach to accept my place and learn to be humble. As Bon Iver sings, at once I knew I was not magnificent. (Also, in hindsight it was probably better that I didn’t drop $200k+ on an undergraduate degree). I’ve seen more things, learned more lessons, and grown since then – and I still have much more to do. I’ve only had a bit of “real-world” experience since graduating, I’m not in law school yet, and I know I haven’t experienced what hitting rock-bottom really feels like despite the many times I thought I had. It still stings when something I’ve put in the effort for doesn’t come to fruit, but that’s just a part of being human. This is all just to say that it’s all about how you take it. There will always be people who unrealistically push you forward and always people who maliciously hold you back. Listen to good advice, build your inner goals, but take everyone (including your own self-doubt and your own over-confidence) with a grain of salt. I completely agree, but OP, you have proven nothing but the opposite so far so keep at it!
  13. Accepted at McGill 2018

    Got the acceptance email this afternoon! CGPA: 3.71 LSAT: 165 Did the French interview last week. Congratulations to all those admitted and best of luck for those still waiting to hear back!
  14. Advice on GPA

    Hey! I want to caveat this - this reply is not to put you down but to give you my opinion/advice/perspective (albeit however limited it may be). Just chiming in to re-iterate Girby's point - I think it's definitely more worth it to pour your time and effort into LSAT prep and get an incredible score rather than take an extra semester to marginally increase your cGPA. I'm not familiar with the Access applicants so I can't provide any insight there. I don't know your exact situation so it might be completely different from what I quickly calculated, but I think your math might be a little off - if you currently have a 3.25 cGPA on OLSAS, there's no mathematical way you can increase that to a 3.7 in one full-courseload semester's worth of marks. The following is using the OLSAS scale and assuming all courses are weighed equally in OLSAS credit-value. If you completed a 4-year Bachelor's program (typically 40 courses), an additional full-courseload semester (5-courses) with all 4.0s will get you to 3.33. If you completed a 3-year Bachelor's program (30 courses), an additional full-courseload semester (5-courses) with all 4.0s will get you to 3.35. If you're currently in your 4th year and you are assuming that your fourth year marks will come out to all 4.0s, and then you take another additional semester with all 4.0s, your cGPA will come out to 3.5. In fact, if you finished a 4-year Bachelor's degree with a 3.25 cGPA and completely re-do another 4-year degree while getting straight 4.0s across the board, that would bring your cGPA to 3.625. This is to point out that it's way more worth it (in my opinion) to destroy the LSAT with a 95th percentile+ score than to take an additional semester (which also has the risk of you not ending up with perfect scores or maybe even lowering your cGPA). I wish you the best of luck with all your applications and hopefully see you in the legal field some day!
  15. What is my L2?! I went on exchange

    I did an exchange (in Europe, where all the transfer credits on my home university's transcript were Pass/Fail but my exchange university's transcript graded me according to their grading system) during my third year and from looking at my OLSAS GPAs under "Academic Background", it seems like they just took the semester that I was at my home university and applied it as my entire 3rd year GPA. I submitted my exchange university's transcript but it doesn't seem like they applied it in the OLSAS calculations -- under the exchange university's section on Academic Background, it says that the transcript was "Reviewed" but did not give me a GPA for it. When I converted the grades by just Googling how the grades would transfer over, the exclusion of my study away grades advantaged my B3 but disadvantaged my CGPA (by very slight amounts). Oh well! Don't know if it's the same situation with you, but take a look into the Academic Background section and it might reveal further information. Edit: Caveat that this is only for OLSAS - for those outside of Ontario I have no idea.