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providence last won the day on February 23

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  1. Ryerson Law by 2020 - Letter of Intent

    I don’t think they are known universally that way. They advertise themselves as great, the people who go/went there are invested in claiming they’re great, and other people may feel it is rude or mean to put a school down.
  2. Ryerson Law by 2020 - Letter of Intent

    True, but looks like salaries for undergrads are similar across the country. And I don’t think living in a more expensive province means that a sole practitioner necessarily makes more. So it’s even worse if you’re making 30-50k, living in an expensive city, and servicing a higher debt.
  3. I was originally going to apply to med school but switched to law school for personal reasons. I would disagree that law school is just as hard to get into. On these boards, I see people regularly getting into Canadian law schools with 3.5 GPAs, or even lower -3.2, 3.3. That isn’t going to happen for Canadian medical school applicants except MAYBE rural or aboriginal access etc. I also don’t agree that the LSAT is universally feared or regarded as difficult. For some people, it is. To me, it was an aptitude test that I didn’t need to study for and wasn’t particularly hard. The MCAT is different because it tests scientific concepts that you learn in class. I don’t think ECs are a very significant factor in the admission of law school applicants in the regular category.
  4. Questions regarding Law

    a) University sciences are way harder than high school sciences. A lot of people flunk out of university math and science because high school does a terrible job of preparing them. b) You're in high school and you "strongly value income" and are worrying about how much you will make? That's not the way to choose a career. What are you good at? What will you enjoy doing? What can you do to make a difference in the world? I would hope you want to be happy and be good at what you do. c) It doesn't matter what your undergrad is in. It matters if you have good grades and can think critically and logically. Having sciences may open certain areas, if you're interested in them. I studied science and math and they are largely irrelevant to my practice area. d) There are lots of threads and discussions here already on job prospects and stress - check them out. If you do end up studying law, you won't be looking for a legal job for around a decade so it's hard to predict what things will look like then. e) Most people in law school are competitive and they can't all get top grades. Yes, the better your grades in law school, the better your job options. f) Having a summer job in undergrad is normal and not a problem. There's no reason to "take school" in the summer. Why would you? That's only if you need to repeat classes or are going part-time or trying to finish early. Most people work and/or do extracurricular/enrichment things or travel.
  5. Ryerson Law by 2020 - Letter of Intent

    Mostly anecdotes and not a lot of facts, but this is kind of what I'm concerned about http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/article/despair-ahead-millennial-lawyers-and-the-legal-job-market-3685/ Alleges that at least in Quebec the average income of soles is 30-50K - which is consistent with humanities degrees, but law grads also often have much more debt than humanities grads. So they'll make about the same whether they're in law or not. http://nationalmagazine.ca/Blog/April-2016/Law-graduates-and-employment-Too-little-informatio.aspx From this 2013 article: Or maybe not. Ontario is experiencing anything but a drought of law school grads. According to the Law Society of Upper Canada, of the 1,750 students graduated from Ontario law schools in 2013, one in seven was expected not to find an articling position. That’s up from 12% of unplaced grads two years ago, and 6% five years ago. Obviously, the problem of too few positions for too many grads is only getting worse. So why on earth would law schools consider pumping out even more articling candidates? http://nationalpost.com/opinion/robyn-urback-here-ontario-have-some-more-law-school-grads
  6. Ryerson Law by 2020 - Letter of Intent

    Excerpting from your link: It depends to an extent on field of study. On average, earnings are higher with degrees than not, but there are lots of exceptions. Seems like humanities is a much less lucrative field - which a lot of law students took their degrees in. Earnings are higher for education, health, engineering, social sciences etc. but many law students did not study those. Looks like those in the humanities make in the 30-40K range median. It would be hard to pay a 100K loan on that. Overall, depending on the field of study considered, young men with a bachelor’s degree earned on average between $9,500 and $38,900 more than young men with a high school diploma in 2012. Young women with a bachelor’s degree earned on average between $12,700 and $32,900 more than young women with a high school diploma. 9 In contrast, those who graduated in Humanities experienced no growth in average earnings. Changes in average earnings observed in other fields of study were not statistically significant at conventional levels.
  7. Ryerson Law by 2020 - Letter of Intent

    No, they aren't making 1500 their first month necessarily, but they're hoping and praying they can at least hustle something more than minimum wage. Or they may be great hustlers but bad lawyers. I've seen that, especially if people have a connection to a particular community and/or do multiple areas of law (an issue in itself.)
  8. Ryerson Law by 2020 - Letter of Intent

    I think you have a higher than warranted opinion of law school grads. That is not the experience of many people I know. I know many university grads who are baristas, manage a retail store, telemarket, or work as admin assistants. I even know people with Masters degrees doing those things. I also know a few people who have struggled to get articles after law school, and they say that when they go to try to get non-law-related office jobs and the like, they get suspiciously questioned as to why they aren't in law / whether they will leave as soon as they get something in law. So yeah, if those people eventually get articles or do the LPP but then have no job offers, some of them would rather try to recoup their investment building a practice. Sure, some flame out after a year or two, but they can cause a lot of damage before then. Hustling a courthouse may not be glamorous, but if you can do it well, it's a skill, and it is part of what we have to do. I get that for most people, criminal defence isn't as prestigious as biglaw, but most law school grads consider it more prestigious than Starbucks even if they would make more at Starbucks.
  9. Ryerson Law by 2020 - Letter of Intent

    Not necessarily. What easier ways are there? And what about the prestige factor? Someone who invested years of their life in being a lawyer doesn’t want to do construction and lose the perceived benefit of saying they’re a lawyer.
  10. Ryerson Law by 2020 - Letter of Intent

    I think there are lots of great sole practitioners. I’m a criminal lawyer - many of my most talented colleagues are soles. I also don’t think all bad soles come from the LPP- many had substandard articles. I just think that being a sole is a calling and NOT a point of last resort for bad lawyers who can’t make it elsewhere - yet that is how it is treated by SOME people. I’m in no way saying all young lawyers, all soles or all lawyers from the LPP are incompetent. But the more lawyers there are without decent employment prospects, the more we will see bad soles who aren’t suited to it. The market shouldn’t be weeding out bad lawyers on the clients’ backs.
  11. Ryerson Law by 2020 - Letter of Intent

    I dunno about that. I saw a guy run a bail a few months ago that I am sure all but the very stupidest of accused could have done better.
  12. Ryerson Law by 2020 - Letter of Intent

    I'm not saying that some of the students at Ryerson won't be smart. But more places in law schools means admission standards will generally drop across the board just that little bit more. The stats being admitted at some of the newer schools are certainly surprising when I read those threads on here. Agreed that access to justice has little to do with the number of lawyers.
  13. Ryerson Law by 2020 - Letter of Intent

    Me, too... and the competence of some of the profs too
  14. Ryerson Law by 2020 - Letter of Intent

    True. But it just adds to the bottleneck of people finishing law school and not getting articles. So if we agree that the LSUC (or LSO now) could and should be tougher at the licensing stage, maybe not allowing some people to act as principals or finding that some students are not competent to be called, we're agreeing that there should be more weeding out at that point, after people have wasted four years and are 100K+ in debt. That seems cruel. Why not do the weeding out earlier and try to limit the number of places in law school and try to do more to select those who will truly be the best lawyers?
  15. Ryerson Law by 2020 - Letter of Intent

    Maybe @pzabbythesecond point is that, IF access to justice is a real concern, any new law schools should go in the north or other under-served areas and not Toronto which has two law schools in the GTA and several more within a couple of hours or so.