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leafs_law last won the day on November 25 2016

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  1. Windsor vs. Osgoode: "Big Five" Firm Prospects

    This is entertaining. Why did I leave my popcorn at home... oh yeah, because apparently it's one of the worst "cancer-causing" foods. Science ruins everything.
  2. 90k in house v 110k at firm

    Only if you think you ever want to work in a firm. It's easy to go in-house with big firm experience. It's much harder to do it the other way around. The salary may be 90 to 110 right now. But in two years it will be 100 to 150 and the difference will only get larger. However, when you compare the 50 hours per week to 60-80 hours per week (I've done more than a couple weeks of 100 hours), it might be worth it to go in-house for better balance.
  3. Housing

    In undergrad, if anyone mentioned NOP, I would shiver. But then I found, as do many other graduate and professional students, that breaking the boundaries of Victoria, Princess and Barrie actually results in nicer places to live, so long as you don't stray too far. I suggest that living close to the hub is better than living close to the school. Having a less than 5 minute walk to do a quick grocery run or go to the bars is heavenly!
  4. Do Law firms hire incoming ILs in any capacity?

    I think it's not worth it for clerical work, even if you can get in. I know people who have done this and made enough connection to get a summer position. But it's a huge risk cause (1) that's really hard to do and (2) it's not great work experience so it puts you at a disadvantage when applying to other firms.
  5. 2017 Associate Salary Bump (Toronto)

    This doesn't have to do with increases, but does anyone know if it's standard for Associates to wait until right after they get their bonus to leave a firm? That would seem to me to be the best time.
  6. I'd recommend Queen's. At least when I went, a surprising number of students were interested in crim/family/government and actually chosen not to participate in OCIs. And the community is INCREDIBLE. It really does feel like a family. And you can walk everywhere in Kingston so people are constantly hanging out. I was choosing between the same schools as you and I chose Queen's because I went there for undergrad and loved it. However, I did end up going the Bay Street route. Edit: I was at Queen's when the class size increased but I was not part of one of the bigger classes.
  7. Moving from mid-size (articling) to large/national firm

    I was agreeing with wakawaka. That's why I said good associate experience makes the difference. I've worked at two different top mid-size firms and I am currently working at a large national firm. So I'm speaking both based on my own experience and what I've heard anecdotally from friends and colleagues. The fact is, at least at my firm, essentially all of the spots for new calls are taken by our own articling students. For those that aren't (and this is rare), they are generally given to students who just finished their clerkships. Then, if there is still a spot for a junior lawyer, we'd rather have an associate with 1-2 years experience. If all else fails, then yes, we might consider a lateral new call without any associate experience. But in almost all cases they previously articled at another national firm. Next in line is those who articled at top mid-sized firms, and only after them comes other mid-sized firms. To say that someone wouldn't have a problem lateraling from a mid-sized boutique to a large/national firm after only articling is just egregiously out of step with reality. Associates from those firms are applying to work for us after they have a few years of experience and we still turn most of them away. So, why, in most situations, would we then turn to the articling student who didn't return to that mid-size firm for associate experience? Of course, there are exceptions, as you noted. Based on specific niche experiences and the particular needs of particular firms at particular times, but those circumstances are extremely unlikely to apply to OP or the vast majority of people reading this thread. All that to say, it's cute to take an "anything is possible" approach, and it's fair to say that there's a chance if the stars and moon align (which they ocassionally do), but I still think we should keep our advice as realistic as possible.
  8. Moving from mid-size (articling) to large/national firm

    It's near-impossible in most situations. All the professional resources staff will toss your application immediately if you don't have good associate experience, even if they say they'll keep you in mind for openings in the future (to be polite). But your best shot would probably be through networking - maybe your mentor on someone else you know has a connection at one of those firms.
  9. Screwups and Faceplants

    I always thought you were female. Welp. Learn something new every day.
  10. Fasken and Norton Rose Toronto raises

    Oy. Davies, yes. Bennett Jones, no. Based on my information, Bennett Jones, unless they have changed to a new comp structure, only pays above market for articling and first years and then pays at or below market for subsequent years.
  11. Fasken and Norton Rose Toronto raises

    Aside from the notion of "7 sisters", I agree with this. The top firms keep their ear to the ground and aim to at least match what other firms offer. There is a lot of movement on Bay and so firms don't want to give associates another reason to find greener grass. My firm admits to us that they actively monitor the market to ensure that we remain competitive, and they also encourage us to let them know if we find out our friends are getting a raise.
  12. Fasken and Norton Rose Toronto raises

    I think few firms are sure about first year salaries at this point. I suspect the recruiters are currently consulting with each other.
  13. 2017 Associate Salary Bump (Toronto)

    We did the increase a few months ago and after the increase it fell in line with the 100, 120 way of doing it.
  14. 2017 Associate Salary Bump (Toronto)

    My firm is closer to the first estimate, if not right on it.
  15. Meeting with principle to discuss hireback (big firm)

    I agree with Barely that you should indicate your interest and ask how you are doing and how you can improve. You will likely not get an indication as to hireback, even if they do have a good idea. And it really depends on the structure of the firm and how it does it's hireback. At my old firm, all of the partners would vote for their favourites and then have a discussion as to who would move up and down in the rankings. So you could have 5 partners in your corner thinking you're a sure thing and still lose out. At my current firm its closer to being hired into a particular practice group. We already have a good idea who we will hire. But, we would never tell them (especially since circumstances can change). We also don't tell the students gunning for our group that they won't be hired. Because we want them to still work hard. However, sometimes a practice group will tell a student to focus on another rotation... believe them when they do.