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  1. 29 points
    I was asked to provide tips on being a great summer student at a large firm via PM. I thought that others on the forum could also make valuable contributions to the "tips" and that the information could be of value to the LS.ca community at large (even though there are many threads already on the topic). My top tips to being a great summer student are: 1. Take notes when you're given instructions - seriously, walk around everywhere with a note pad and pen so that if anyone grabs you and starts giving you instructions you can immediately write them down. There were times (especially as a first year summer student) when I had to write down instructions phonetically because I had no idea what the heck I was being asked to do and if i didn't have a note pad with me I would have been screwed. 2. when you are taking your instructions from a lawyer who you've never done work for, ask the important questions: what file number is this being billed to? how much time should i aim to spend on it? do you want this in memo form? do you want the cases printed and highlighted or will electronic copies be fine? Large firms also have data bases with loads of precedents so whenever I was given a task for a lawyer I never worked for I always went into the data bases to see how that lawyer liked their memos to be set up - I also spoke to Junior associates or lingering articling students for advice regarding how to approach certain tasks for certain lawyers. 3. Save all of your questions for one meeting rather than asking them as they come up. What I mean by this is once you get your instructions, go away and do your task. As you are doing the task you may have some clarification questions, write them down in a coherent manner and then, when you absolutely cannot do anything more, go and ask them all in one shot. Don't go and bug the instructing lawyer every time a question comes up - you'll be perceived as annoying and incompetent. 4. Always attach a "research trail" at the end of any task you've been given. It's important so the lawyer knows what you have done (and what you haven't done) when completing your research. It's also the best way for you to learn how to improve. 5. I always try to finish the task the night before it's due, sleep on it, and then have a fresh read of a hard copy the day I submit it. Make sure you proof read - nothing is worse then spelling mistakes. 6. Always ask for feedback on the tasks you've been given, whether it's a week or two weeks after you've submitted it, if you don't hear back, pop your head in and ask if they've had a chance to look at it and if they have any suggestions for improvement. 7. Work as a team with your fellow students. Competition between students is really pointless - it just makes you all look bad. The lawyers want to see you getting a long well with people. Keep your speech positive and be kind to everyone you encounter. 8. Be the one the lawyers can depend on. If they are staying late in the office, you should pop your head in and ask if there is anything you can do to help. If they ask you to do something urgently and it means you have to cancel your plans - do it, stay and go the extra mile. 9. If you have nothing to do, go around to the lawyers and tell them you have capacity to take on tasks - even as a student you need to learn how to drum up work. 10. No task is beneath you. You are the guy that will work the weekend in the copy room putting together evidence books for upcoming trial. You are also the guy to proof read factums, do legal research and draft pleadings. If it needs to be done, volunteer to do it and be happy about it (no one likes a complainer). 11. be nice to your support staff. Tell them how thankful you are for their assistance, ask them for help when you need it and, every once and a while, bring them baked goods Good luck to all who will be starting next month!
  2. 25 points
    UPDATE: FOUND AN ARTICLING POSITION! I have finally received an offer for an articling position! It is from a small law firm that practices mostly real estate law along with some business law. Real estate law is not one of primary areas of interest but the lawyers seem very pleasant to work with and it seemed like a great opportunity, given my circumstances, so I accepted it. I know many others on this forum disagree with my reasons to article or do the LPP but I thought I would post an update here so that anyone else who has been searching for an articling position for a long time and feel like they have no hope can see that there is always a chance. If someone like me, who has made so many stupid mistakes with regards to articling and post-law school decisions, can find one, then so can you! Hang in there! Also, I am so f****** happy right now.
  3. 19 points
    No, in fact I have less. I don't remember complaining about my low score. In fact if you look at my very first post on this forum a year ago, I wrote in the U of T rejected thread: Rejected a couple days ago. Stupidly imagined I could wing the LSAT like I did the SAT. Nope. Rewriting in September! cGPA: ~3.56 LSAT: 155 I clenched my jaw and worked like an animal for the next few months to do what needed to be done, and conquered the exam. It wasn't easy, and my life hasn't exactly been a walk in the park either, although I have been fortunate in some respects. I relied almost entirely upon myself and did what needed to be done. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't recall making a post on this forum presumptuously claiming that the LSAT is weighed too heavily by law schools and that law school admissions are biased or unfair. I steeled my resolve, sacrificed a lot, aimed singularly at what was necessary, and reached a 170 and got in to U of T. Some people climb the mountain to reach the top. Others complain that there is a mountain top, and declare wherever they are to be the new mountain top. Now mind you I'm all for supporting OP in her endavours, and if she has any questions as to how she might improve on the LSAT, I'm more than happy to help. I've helped around a dozen people on this forum raise their LSAT scores by answering their messages and providing them with my humble guidance. I love helping people succeed. But I won't validate anti-hierarchical claims coming out of left-field by someone who hasn't done what it takes to succeed in an explicitly hierarchical and competitive pursuit - law school admissions. Especially as someone who also had a low first write, and did what it took to succeed. However I do apologize for my earlier remark, it was unhelpful at best.
  4. 17 points
    Accepted today! Im a reapplicant who was waitlisted for 6 months last year. I received my rejection letter right after my Dad's funeral, so Im over the moon right now. LSAT 159 158 166 L2 Pretty bad. No idea how they calculated foreign courses. Low end of 3 ECs courthouse volunteering, international language competition, instant noodle instagram REFs Very close with both professors and have done tons of activites with one of them. Green circled Jan 22 no change until today.
  5. 17 points
    I take it back, you're right. The law schools will ignore your LSAT and rewrite their admissions criteria the moment they see your application. Thank you for making me see the error of my ways. Good luck, Your Honour.
  6. 16 points
    For what it’s worth OP most of the reaction in this thread has been off the mark. The idea you shouldn’t breach a contract is obviously silly. People breach contracts every day. Nobody enters into a contract on the understanding it can’t be breached. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a contract is and pretty unforgivable on a forum full of lawyers. Your firm isn’t going to sue you for damages, and if they did you can pay them. That’s all that contract law says. You think they’re going to get specific performance? Lol. All discussion of your “contract” or “reputation” is a red herring. You’d piss off firm 1 but really who cares. People leave jobs for other jobs that pay more money every day. That’s how the labor market works. What an awful world it would be for employees if it didn’t work that way! Having said that you unfortunately live in a province where legal practice is governed by an anticompetitive cartel that makes up silly rules about legal practice and they seem to say this is not allowed. So unless you think you can come to a mutual understanding with firm 1 it could land you in hot water with the law society to move to firm 2 now. That’s really all that matters here.
  7. 16 points
    I sent an email to CTV Windsor over an hour ago and it looks like the article just got retracted. Here is my email: I am writing to express strong concern regarding the article that you published on CTV Windsor online regarding the law school ranking of the University of Windsor titled, "Windsor cracks top five for best law school in Canada". The reason for my concern is that you have published an article linking its source to a student publication that contains glaring misstatements, inaccurate statistics, and plagiarized content. For example, the student publication lists Windsor Law's GPA and LSAT statistics as 3.7 and 157, respectively. This is outright false. According to the University of Windsor Faculty of Law official website, the GPA and LSAT entrance stats are not disclosed as admission to the law school is based on 7 different criteria, and nowhere is a GPA/LSAT statistic listed. I called the admissions office, and they did not disclose statistics for me. http://www.uwindsor.ca/law/1163/windsor-law-admissions-faq 2) There are blatant untruths and misstatements in the article. For example, the University of Alberta Law School's tuition is NOT $29,727.80. For domestic students, it is close to $15-16K. Similarly, the average LSAT/GPA is 3.8/160 as per the law school's official website (https://www.ualberta.ca/law/admissions/juris-doctor/applicant-profile), NOT 3.7/161. The student author simply lifted these statistics from Wikipedia, which is not accurate. Similarly, the average LSAT entrance requirement for York University, according to its law school, is 162 (82nd percentile), as per their official website. It is NOT 165 as stated in the student publication. https://www.osgoode.yorku.ca/programs/juris-doctor/jd-admissions/eligibility-requirements/ 3) The amount of plagiarized content is staggering. The author has simply lifted the content of her profiles for each school from Wikipedia (compare University of Toronto, McGill, and Windsor profiles for instance, to the Wikipedia pages of these respective schools). Similarly, the author lifted profiles directly from the official Ivy Global LSAT website for schools like York University (Osgoode Hall). The result is that the article contains outdated and incorrect statements that are not current, truthful, or correct. https://old.ivyglobal.ca/lsat/school_osgoode.asp The credibility of this student magazine, "University Magazine", and by extension, CTV, is undermined and called into question when you provide thousands of readers with literally false reporting and false news through an outlet that fails to uphold basic journalistic practices, namely, accurate and truthful reporting. I respectfully ask that you retract this article immediately. Your viewers and the general public deserve truthful and accurate reporting, and also deserve to know that the news content that they rely on upholds the basic journalistic practices of truthfulness and accuracy.
  8. 15 points
    If I was your fun broker and you came to me and said “I have $30,000/year to spend for the next 3 years and I’d like to have a lot of fun” I would probably steer you in another direction.
  9. 15 points
    Did you come to the UofT Waitlist and Rejected threads just to paint everyone who wants to attend UofT with the broad brush that they're "pointlessly" taking on debt for prestige? Might as well do it in the Accepted thread too and make it 3/3. There are tons of reasons why someone would want to attend UofT over some other school rather than "prestige" - location, career opportunities, clinics, professors, school atmosphere, close friends going there... list goes on. You chose Osgoode (2017-2018 tuition at $26k) over Queen's/Western/Ottawa (tuition at $19k/$22k/$18k) which you admit all of which can place you on Bay if you try hard enough. If everything is just a "choose the cheapest option", then why'd you choose Osgoode to take on "pointless" debt? Also, UofT has the most generous financial aid program out of any of the Ontario schools. For example, Ottawa's bursary program for law students if you're eligible is Year 1: $2,000, Year 2&3: $1,500. UofT Law's bursary program, which was given out to 50% of all students, averages $10,900 per student per year for 2017-2018. If you qualify for financial aid, UofT also pays a portion (if not all) your interest on the PSLOC while in school. If you graduate and make less than $60k a year, UofT covers a significant portion of your debt through their PDRP (which is on a sliding scale as your salary goes up). Don't get me wrong, there are people who only consider prestige and choose a school based on that. But I think it's pretty frivolous to come to the UofT threads and think anyone who wants to attend UofT is only doing it for prestige. If you came and said "Hey look, it's not that bad that you got waitlisted/rejected, at least you won't be paying all that debt!" in good humour, that's fine. But unless I (and many others) have misinterpreted your comments, you didn't - you came and said "Look at all these fools thinking a degree from UofT Law is worth the price."
  10. 14 points
    Well.... *now* I actually do feel a bit sorry for the applicant.
  11. 14 points
    My Law School Rankings: 1. Queens. I went there. Ergo, is best school. 2. UBC. I live in Vancouver and it is closest geographically to me. Ergo, is second best school. 3. UVic. See #2 and extrapolate. Also craft beer. 4. TRU. See #3. Also wine country. 5. UNB. Probably should include an Eastern school somewhere around here. 6. U Of M. See # 5 and extrapolate. 7. All remaining Ontario schools are all exactly the same because this will make most of you foam at the mouth, and that’s funny. 8. U of S. I know nothing about this school at all so it gets the benefit of the doubt. 9. Dalhousie. I once dropped poutine here and a seagull came and ate it and seagulls are the assholes of the sky so you get last. 10. McGill actually gets last because I speak no french at all. 11. If I forgot anyone else they are tied for very very last. 22. U of C and U of A don’t even rank because booooo Flames and Oilers.
  12. 13 points
    Hello, I thought I would give my honest review of my 1L experience at uOttawa. Hopefully this helps some of you. Some Good: 1. The quality of professors (at least for me) has been solid. Even the professors I have not particularly liked have been extremely well-versed in the subject they were teaching, and were always engaging lecturers. They found ways to make subject matter I hate be relatable and interesting. Every professor I have had has been approachable (even the scary ones). I feel like professors really respect their students, and are very aware of the stressful periods of 1L (aka the nightmare that was late November). There have been multiple times where I had a "shit this sucks, I don't want to be here anymore" attitude, only to have a professor give some solid morale boost in class to build me back up. I am sure others feel the same. 2. The student body is very collegial. It is hard to not compare yourself with your classmates at times and stress about marks. But with that said, I have never had a classmate actively root against another or try to do any type of competitive bullshit. It's very much been a "if you see someone down, you pick them back up" kind of atmosphere. My biggest fear of law school was the competitiveness, but really, the only person you are competing against is yourself when you think that way. 3. Pub grub and beer. There are so many places within a 2 minute walk of Fauteux that if your day really sucked, or you just want to have a couple drinks with friends, they're right there. Many a "quick beer" turned into a 4-hour chill sesh. 4. The small group set-up. I had a very good experience in my small group and felt that it was a way to get a better look at a topic I knew nothing about. My small group topic was something I had no knowledge of whatsoever, and without it, would probably have struggled. But the small group format meant we spent a lot of time on tedious cases that would have confused the hell out of me had I been in a lecture of 80 people. 5. For as much as people shit on the administration, they have always been very good with any issue that has come up in my experience so far. So I may be the first to say this but the administration never messed any of my stuff up, always facilitated my needs and responded to my questions and emails in a timely manner. 6. There are always information sessions and guest lectures being held. Some are helpful, some aren't, but I like how much is always going on in the law building. There is always something going down if you pay attention, lots to check out. 7. Scraps of food and coffee are everywhere. If you choose uOttawa, you will learn to scavenge in Fauteux like the rest of us raccoons. You will probably never want to eat a wrap again after first year. 8. Upper-year peer mentors have been really helpful. They've shown us the ropes. I didn't know what the hell a case brief was, a summary, a short summary, a long summary, a framework etc., it was all gibberish and I was completely lost. But our peer mentor gave us the down low on every damn thing, hooked us up with a tonne of helpful strategies and tips, and eased the learning curve. I should add as well the students who run my tutorials have been pretty solid, so thank you to them as well. 9. I think we get a fall reading week next year (?). I can't remember if that's a real thing or if I just dreamed it. Some Bad: 1. The building sucks. Genuinely every building I have gone into on campus blows FTX out of the water. The bathrooms are few and far between, most notably in the library. Women get the short end of the stick on this one for sure. I think there is one nice classroom in the whole building - I forget the number at the moment but the third floor one with pink and purple seats. It's like they just decided to update that one classroom, then said "okay good enough lol" and forgot the rest of the building. The others have these horrible plastic chairs that just make your get gnarly swamp ass. The fourth floor of the library is nice, but it fills up rather quick. The fifth floor might as well be purgatory, and of course there are no bathrooms on the fifth floor. The library's computer lab is good though, it's usually pretty empty. 2. The building is overcrowded. They're trying to fit too many people in it. At peak times in first semester it was really noticeable. The mix is also weird. You got 25 year old common law students mixed in a building with 18 and 19 year olds. Just separate the two programs. 3. More hate on the building: those damn double doors when you enter. Just seriously flatten FTX or give us one of those fancy new buildings down the road. If you have mobility issues, I could see FTX being a major headache. On the first floor alone you have to get in a tiny elevator JUST to get to the main elevator, and you would still need to go through a fire escape door if you wanted access to the 5th floor of the library. 3. Legal Research, Alternative Dispute Resolution and Property. These first two courses aren't stressful, but they seem to add stress onto first semester for no reason. ADR was pretty meh, I don't understand why any of it was needed in the first semester as you take it for 3 weeks in January and learn all the same stuff. Same with Legal Research - that easily could have been a single semester course. Why they make property the single semester course out of these three makes little sense to me. Property was dense, and felt more applicable in future practice than both LR and ADR. In property I felt like I was duct-taped to the roof of a car ripping down the highway passing important signs like "oh shit what did that one say?" haha. 4. January term. I cannot stress how pointless I think January term is. It is 3 weeks of slacking off, then everyone banging out an assignment the night before so we can all go home or go on vacation. Christmas and New Years is done, and then BAM you're back in Fauteux thinking "what the hell, I was just eating turkey wasn't I?" Then you get this garbage reading week at the end of January term, that isn't even a reading week and is only 3 weeks after winter break. You can't get ahead on assignments. No one wants to read because they just crammed 1 week of ADR work into a single night. Some people actually get stuck in cold ass Ottawa when they could've spent an extra week back home or wherever, and now have to buy a plane or train ticket to go home again. That just sucks. When you come back from that week you don't feel rested, and you face a shortened semester with a bunch crammed in. 5. Alluded to above - the shortened winter semester feels very rushed with some prof's trying to cram a tonne in, and then some prof's just phoning it in later in the term. 6. The winter. This has nothing to do with the school at all. I love winter. I love the snow, I love skating outside, I love that feeling where the wind hits you just right and suffocates you for a good 5 seconds. I love all that shit. But I. Fucking. Hate. Ottawa. Winters. The weather here is the worst. It throws everything at you, freezing rain, snow dumps, -40 wind chill. This is all bundled together with shit sidewalks that are never cleared. It's March and it's still miserable! Anyways, there are some thoughts. As with any place, some good, some bad. All what you make it. Sorry if there are any mistakes, mainly wrote this post because I am procrastinating on catching up on readings and don't feel like starting a paper.
  13. 13 points
    I know I'm about to take a line that won't be entirely popular or common. But my personal view has always been that when you simply can't avoid the problem you have to steer into it. And in this case, that means simply being (mostly) candid about your situation. For context, because I know people won't see this from my perspective immediately, we're talking about someone who has been in a position to look for articles for almost two full years. For someone who graduated in April of 2017, the earliest organized recruiting during OCIs would have been June (July?) of 2016. So we're talking about someone who's been on the market a long time. Trying to talk around this issue like it isn't a real thing will sound terrible. Unavoidably so. Everyone you are talking to will imagine something terrible. And I don't mean "terrible" in the social sense. I mean terrible in the employment sense. They'll imagine you've washed out of multiple articling jobs already and they aren't on your CV. Or you really never wanted to practice, went to grad school, couldn't hack it there, and dropped out. Or something else equally bad. I know it's hard to talk about illness, and especially mental illness. But speaking for my many colleagues, you'd be amazed how many supportive people there are in this profession. There are lots of people who've been there, or know close friends and family members who have. And they can grasp the fact that people get better. When you don't address the elephant in the room, everyone imagines it's the worst thing it could be. When you do address it, some people may find that it really is the thing they were worried it might be. Some people will hold mental illness against you and will disqualify you for that reason. But many won't. Some may even be eager to help you if they can. So if you're candid, on average, you'll do way, way better. I know. You're under no obligations to do this. It would be contrary to all kinds of human rights stuff for your interviewers to even ask. Yes. I do know all of that. And yet, in the real world, everything I wrote above is still very true, or at least I have found it to be so. Good luck.
  14. 13 points
    TL; DR Yes, I will be your pen pal if you ever want to chat. Feel free to DM me :). Please seek professional help if needed. The story below is only anecdotal and worked for me while going through a similar situation and wanted to share so you know there's others feeling the same. I went through similar feelings of lethargy at my current place of employment. I tried to overcome this by setting goals for myself in the most remedial of tasks. Cook all my meals during the weekdays, try a new restaurant every Saturday, lose ten pounds, bench two plates, write the LSAT, finally attempt to pursue my dream of law school, etc. I succeeded in all of my goals but this did not satisfy my need for growth or feeling of emptiness. I went beyond, I started telling myself I'd lose 20 pounds and go to the gym everyday at 5 AM before work. I started not only cooking my meals, but only cooking clean whole foods. I added reading a book a week to my schedule, I made sure I took time for a coffee regardless of how busy I was to reflect on my accomplishments every morning after my work out. I always wrote out on a sticky note what my goal was and crossed it out once completed or if recurring kept it up as a reminder. Sooner than later I had a long list of crossed out goals, I became obsessed with progress and growth. Now I'm taking Spanish lessons twice a week, reading 1 - 3 books a week, working out everyday, and finally going to law school next year. The meaning of (or better said as - IN) life is not in accomplishment or obtaining goals, it's finding the balance between maintaining your routine and comfort in certainty and making the decision to step out of your comfort zone to go on an adventure to the unknown. You knew you were smart, you knew you'd go to law school, you knew you'd have an articling position, you knew you'd get a job. Now that you have your routine and comforts, starting slowly stepping out of your comfort zone while maintaining your routine. Sign up for salsa lessons once a week, don't let yourself convince yourself it is stupid. Learn to scuba dive, progress through the PADI ranks, take a trip every year to Bermuda, start crossing off places on a map you've dove. Your commitment to personal development will attract like minded people and eventually someone you'll end up spending the rest of your life with or maybe not, but you will have a lifetime of accomplishments and consistent balance of routine and unknown keeping you busy. You are an exceptional human being with a capacity to do great in this world and have already done more than most can imagine, the problem is you are not like most people. You owe it to yourself and those around you to challenge yourself and try new things. Go on an adventure. Good luck, keep us updated. And send us a post card :).
  15. 12 points
    Gave it some thought and I think these are the categories I subconsciously use to evaluate summer students. Most people fall between the extremes in the first two categories. The vast majority of summer/articling students are reasonably generic in terms of performance since we're all effectively trained the same way. If you have three or four Awesome traits and no more than one or two Not Awesome ones, you're probably in good shape. Cross the line into Extremely Not Awesome and you should be grateful to escape the firm with your articling requirement satisfied. Awesome Punctual: Meets or beats deadlines, or gives lengthy notice of inability to meet deadlines Intellectually curious: inquires after file and seeks updates or more work Adds value: During basic tasks, notices discrepancies and raises new arguments or points of evidence Skilled: Is developing background expertise in a useful area and can contribute in substance Extreme attention to detail: no spelling or grammatical errors, no incorrect dates or page references Excellent firm citizen: joins teams and groups, volunteers to do heavy lifting on charity and firm events High EQ: Bonds with staff, clients and counsel Confident: Neither arrogant nor avoiding responsibility Polished: Speaks well, well groomed, impressive brand ambassador Team player: Sacrifices where appropriate, seeks assistance and relief as necessary Not Awesome Unreliable: Misses or pushes deadlines, turns in half-complete or rushed work, advises that deadline will be blown with insufficient time to restaff Passive: Accepts and performs work, does not contribute enthusiasm or helpful perspective Drudge: Works to rule, performs strict task assigned only, actively avoids adding value Generic: Understands general principles of law, equally useless across the board Careless: Generates more work for lawyers who have to become editors and footnote-checkers Absentee: Demonstrates no aptitude for, or interest in, business side of legal practice Low EQ: Denigrates or abuses staff, unfriendly or self-obsessed Confidence imbalance: Either too arrogant to take instruction or too meek to defend a good idea Sloppy: Projects incompetence and disorganization Work generator: Work only creates more tasks for other members of the team to fix or manage Extremely Not Awesome -ist: Demonstrates racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-Semitic tendencies Dishonest: Goes beyond generally acceptable mischaracterization (e.g. "Uh... I'm working on that") to outright answering direct questions falsely Unethical: Plagiarizes, breaches confidentiality, tampers with witnesses, etc. Treacherous: Develops reputation for throwing others under the bus, starting rumours, cruel or disrespectful attitude to staff, students or lawyers (clerks are fine, they'll handle you themselves) Abdicates responsibility: Straight-up refuses, or accepts and does not perform, tasks assigned Saboteur: Actively damages lawyers' relationships with judges, opposing counsel or clients
  16. 12 points
    I almost want to email a screen shot of this and ask if I can have it 😂.
  17. 12 points
    It’s not meant to be an insult. I said it a bit flippantly and I apologize for that, but I do sincerely feel bad for anyone old enough to go to law school who has a parent so heavily involved in their application process that they are advising them where to go and posting on their behalf on a forum. If your child gets into law school, in 4 years, they could be responsible for peoples’ money, their life savings, the future of their children, their liberty, or their most important rights. Before that point, they will be rubbing shoulders with a lot of accomplished, independent adults who are their classmates. I can tell you that when I was in law school, people who had parents this involved in their lives (I remember one whose parents drove them to and from school, made their lunches, and did their laundry!) struggled socially. In my opinion you are not doing your adult child any favours by being a helicopter parent and when reality hits, it could be brutal for them, so this is why I legitimately and honestly do feel a bit sorry for them.
  18. 11 points
    January: Ugh, Osgoode is full of bleeding heart SJWs April: Guys, it has come to my attention that currently-dominant systems and structures produce severe inequities on arbitrary bases, without any concern for individual desert or merit
  19. 11 points
    Ok let's play at that game. Let's say u of t has a brutal curve. Even in a brutal curve people get As. Literally that's true unless u of t simply never gives out As. Which I don't believe, nor did you claim. So some people get As. So how is the curve brutal? Well it still can be by assuming your classmates are all geniuses. Unless you're in a particular program like engineering science or the like, u of t simply doesn't have programs filled with geniuses to the extent that someone who can get a 173 on the lsat ended up sub median of the class (that's what it sounds like) for 4 years of schooling. So all that's left is you didn't try hard enough (unless you're part of the exception like engineering science and similar programs). Congrats on the lsat. But don't be an asshole to other schools just because you likely didn't give a shit for 4 years.
  20. 11 points
    Why are we suggesting L2 schools? OP's L2 is not good either. You need to step it up in school. Your grades are not anywhere near competitive. Either do better, or stay an extra year to bump it up, or both. Probably both. You also need to rewrite your LSAT. A 150 is not a terrible score (it's around average), but average is not good enough for law school. Aim for at least a 160. You may also wish to consider the UK or some lower ranked US schools if you're dead set on law school. Otherwise, consider an alternate career. Not trying to sound harsh, but it is what it is.
  21. 11 points
    Wait a little longer and you’ll see that we only have about twelve actual conversations that are on eternal repeat. Sometimes posters step over the line, in which case there is a handy Report button. Other times helpful advice is delivered in a tone that could stand some tweaking. And sometimes actual helpful advice is the blunt kind. And sometimes - as here - the OP is actively seeking only positive feedback, which somewhat limits the utility of any replies, and people react to that with good intentions as they walk to road to hell. So if the OP wants this thread closed, we will oblige, but otherwise the useful feedback here far outweighs the snark and it is a useful thread.
  22. 11 points
    This is huge! If you are writing timed tests at 160-165 then it is absolutely possible for you to actually get that as an official score. You don't have to be saddled with the 148! It's too late for this upcoming September, but next cycle, @saraeliz, next cycle -- you can go from 36th percentile to 92nd and leave no doubt that you're ready to succeed in law school. You're being dismissive of the LSAT here and I get that - it's your albatross right now - but you're on the cusp of turning it into a major asset. I'll be rooting for you.
  23. 11 points
    Many many people have faced a PFO from Toronto Hydro. I get it every time I see my bill.
  24. 10 points
    It’s not a shitty situation at all. OP, unlike many others on here, has a paying, legal, 2L summer job and a possibility of well-paying articles at another firm.... if s/he doesn’t screw it up.
  25. 10 points
    Sometimes, I think of the posters on this forum as vultures... waiting for a poster with the right amount of vulnerability, naivety, and arrogance.
  26. 10 points
    I’m sorry you’ve had some rough experiences and that you’re feeling discouraged. I do think you need a little reality check, though. It is way too early to have “judge” as a goal, first of all. I have been a lawyer for several years and I sometimes think of wanting to be a judge but it’s too early for me. Not only is the process incredibly competitive and political, but you have to be an outstanding lawyer first. There are plenty of amazing lawyers who want to be judges who never do. That should not be your goal because it might not happen. Being a great lawyer should be your goal, which may then open other doors. Also, not everyone who has a 170 has no life experience and sat and studied 24/7 and not everyone who had challenges in life and had to work did poorly on the LSAT and got bad grades. I kind of resent that assumption because it doesn’t reflect my experiences. And some people sit and study 24/7 and still can’t get a 170. The LSAT doesn’t work like that. Also, in terms of being holistic, sure, schools are holistic, but not completely at the expense of grades. I suspect that holistic factors are used more as tie-breakers between people with similar stats than to let in much lower stats than their normal range. And you have no idea what other peoples’ stories are. I guarantee you are not the only applicant who struggled. Or the only one with good reference letters or who wants to do social justice and make a difference. That being said, what can you do now if you don’t get into a school? Well if you didn’t study 24/7 for the LSAT you should try it and see if your score goes up. Your score is really not competitive. Also did you apply in the regular category? If you did, try the mature category next time.
  27. 9 points
    Okay, so first let’s accept that there isn’t going to be a five year gap between now and 2023 when absolutely no one hires any articled students in criminal defence. There are positions out there and more will become available as time goes by. So if this is what you want to do then apply and stop trying to figure out your odds. No one gets any guarantees in this business, ever - get used to that. I am currently involved in the other end of things and I can tell you a few pointers: 1. I care about clinical experience doing criminal law. The number one selling point for me right now is that some one has stood up in criminal court and made submissions on something. I don’t really care if they were successful and convinced the judge: I care that they have had the experience of preparing for and speaking in court. 2. I care about whether there is an actual interest in criminal law. There’s actually a perception amongst some students that Crim work is low on the ladder and is kind of a catch-all for those who can’t do anything else. It is very easy to tell when a student has been interested in criminal law from the start: you get second year classes in evidence and criminal procedure and sentencing and you get the student legal aid clinic or pro bono clinic or whatever. We all know most hiring happens before third year starts, so what you do in second year matters insofar as it indicates what you are actually interested in. 3. I care about your marks in evidence, Crim Pro, and sentencing, or whatever other relevant marks you have. Really don’t care if you got a C in Corporations. Not too fussed about your B- in Property. I highlight your relevant marks and do not look at the others after the first glance. 4. I care about your cover letter. Can you write like a human being? Is this an obvious copy/paste job? Your cover letter is the only time I get to hear your voice as distinct from every other application I am getting. If I don’t feel like you are actually talking to ME then I am unlikely to want to extend the conversation to an interview. Tell me what you’ve done in criminal law so far and what you like about it. Tell me what you want out of your articling experience. Tell me what your ties are to my community if you’re applying from out of province. Point out any details I might miss from your resume and tie it in to your theme - was that scholarship based on your volunteer work with the homeless? Was your research paper for that prof in the evolution of 11b post-Jordan? I want to know! But I will be your boss, not your drinking buddy, so hold off on the jokes and slang. This is still a professional interaction. Walk the line. 5. Finally, a phone call or email from some one recommending you helps. If I get a call from senior counsel who supervised your moot I am going to listen to them. If I ask around and you’re some one who has been showing up at the CBA subsection since 1L and getting your face out there, it counts. This kind of thing will probably get you into an interview as long as your resume and transcripts are acceptable. But once we meet, all bets are off: then it’s on you. Hope that helps.
  28. 9 points
    Been lurking this thread for the past 2 years, and am finally thrilled and honoured to be posting here! Accepted as of this morning: cGPA: 3.57 L2/B2: 3.75 LSAT 164 (Feb) Good luck to everyone in the queue!
  29. 9 points
    I am very happy to be able to post I have been accepted!! The wait was worth it hahah Olsas cgpa 3.61 b2 3.86 l2 3.76 160 Dec and 162 Feb
  30. 9 points
    I didn't get halfway through this post before deciding to comment. Admittedly, I also did not test well on the LSAT. Scored in the mid-160s during PTs and a 159 on test day. The reality of the matter is that, because the applicant pool is so large, standardized tests are the only way to weed out potential candidates from those less likely to succeed. And whether you'd like to believe it or not, a lot of time has been spent designing the test so that it measures some of the characteristics most determinant to the success of future lawyers. I understand the urge to downplay the significance of the LSAT when the result isn't what you wanted, but it does make up a sizable portion of your application, and without a decent score at least, it's hard for ad-coms to consider extracurriculars as replacements for the LSAT. At best, your ECs are a valuable asset to your application, but it must be at least partially competitive to begin with. I applied last year and got railed by all the schools I applied to. It honestly sucked -- was a huge hit to my confidence. I had a long heart-to-heart with a blunt friend of mine who told me to get my shit together. That also hurt. I finished my Master's degree, took a year off, studied my ass off for the LSAT, bumped up my mark (not exponentially, mind you), and got into one of my top choices! I truly admire your passion and persistence, but that passion MUST be coupled with results. Passion and tenacity without tangible results (as unfortunate and cold as it sounds) won't get you anywhere. From the bottom of my heart, I hope you succeed. The legal community needs devoted and headstrong people like you. But do take some of the advice that's being given, it hurts but it'll ultimately help. If your GPA is the issue, apply to a grad program; if it's the LSAT, study and re-write. If this is your dream, then make it happen! Kindest regards
  31. 9 points
    Wish granted. The above is all fair comment. If you think it’s a good idea to limit hours when the work is rolling in, you’re going to be one sad monkey when the work gets lean and you didn’t save up. Then you can have all the free time you want to worry about how the fuck you can pay your bills this month. This is not a stable profession. There is feast. There is famine. You do not determine when one becomes the other. Here is what you are missing: a criminal defence lawyer is first and foremost a small business owner offering legal representation. This means that you manage your own files, your own billing, your own accounting, your trust report audits, your law society correspondence, you stock your office supplies, you subscribe to whatever services assist eg quicklaw, you keep up on recent cases, you network, you write articles for CLE, you do presentations for the local bar, you mentor students and junior counsel, and you get your suits dry cleaned and tailored and all of this is on your own dime, your own time. If you think criminal defence = work on as many files as I want whenever I want, you are missing about 65% of what the job is.
  32. 9 points
    Did you consider that some of us are minorities/overcame a lot to be where we are, and speak from experience?
  33. 9 points
    Seriously? Well, unfortunately what you believe makes you a stronger candidate means nothing as you're not part of the admissions committee. You scored below the 50th percentile on a test designed to predict a student's ability to succeed in law school. This doesn't make you a stupid person but you can't just wave it away because you don't like it. I didn't study 24/7 by any means, I was in the middle of my busiest semester of grad school when I took the LSAT and I managed a 165. I probably studied for <25 hours total. Some students have blind diagnostic scores close to a 170. Scoffing at other candidate's accomplishments and implying that they only got into law school because they sat on their ass and studied all day is a very shitty attitude. You have an access claim to explain your grades. That's all well and good. But your access claim doesn't apply to your LSAT. You have the same opportunity as everyone else to do well on it. If you got a high 150 then I guarantee you'd get in to at least one of those schools. But I'm doubtful of your chances with a <150.
  34. 9 points
    Is this your first day on the internet? IIRC Access claims are generally processed at the end, but nowadays it's becoming a much more competitive pool. I doubt many access applicants have gotten anywhere. But I'm not doing much, so I'll bite. For the sake of argument, I'll buy your argument that your grades suffered and can be explained by your hardships. But how can you justify an LSAT below the median? Can your learning disability be overcome with treatment, or will it be a permanent impairment? I also don't believe being LGBTQ is a legitimate access claim unless you can show it's caused hardships to you. You say your app is well written, but are you giving an objective opinion? Yes, your "triumphs" beat out someone who has a 170 with no job or life experience. Guess what? Most people getting acceptances aren't sitting on a 170 with no job or life experience. And no, social justice doesn't make you stand out anymore, if anything it makes you more like everyone else. Your work experience makes you sound like a good candidate, but you're also putting yourself up on a pedestal. Many people applying access or with similar work experiences to you, and you're standing out much less than you think. You're putting down a major consideration in the LSAT, and it sounds like you got rocked by it. That's not an excuse. I think it's bullshit too, but an opinion doesn't overwrite a below median score. Now, if you had a poor GPA but these experiences and at least a 155 LSAT, I'd have said you were rock solid. I wish you the best of luck, but you seem to need a dose of reality. >Cue Diplock
  35. 9 points
  36. 8 points
    Guys, if I make it past midnight tonight without getting rejected it means I made it further than when I applied in 2015!
  37. 8 points
  38. 8 points
    Advise time? What kind of advice is time looking for?
  39. 8 points
    Jesus fucking Christ. You're all a bunch of idiots. First off, unless anyone can point to real authority, rather than simply their opinion, there's absolutely nothing to suggest that summer law students are bound by any of the same procedures that apply to articling students. And it's ridiculous to imagine that they would be. You can have all the side debates that you want to, but I've never seem any situation in Ontario where the Law Society said "summer law students are the same as articling students" and I'd never expect one. Second, the OP risks looking like a douche, and burning bridges, and establishing a terrible reputation (albeit in limited circles) and not any kind of legal repurcussions. Those of you who are eager to show off that you remember 1L Contracts Law are free to continue spouting off. But you know what the most important lesson in contracts is? If no one is going to sue anyone else, the law doesn't fucking matter. Do you really imagine the original employer is going to sue their would-be summer student for breach of contract? Talk about going nuclear. It's never, ever going to happen. So no, I don't care if there was a verbal contract or what. And on one else should either. Finally, the OP made up their mind before they even started this thread. Here's the only meaningful thing you can say in reply to this. You are screwing over a law firm that was good enough to offer you a job. If you feel it's worth it, for more money somewhere else, then just fucking do it. But stop justifying yourself so desperately. It's sad. Make your decisions and live with the consequences. There's no good way of doing what you want to do right now, just like there's no good way to dump your boy or girlfriend and somehow explain that it's because you found someone else who's hotter than they are. There's no way to say it well because it isn't the presentation that's the issue - it's the fact that were obviously still looking for another job long after you committed to the first one. It isn't an accident. You weren't suddenly deployed overseas. You just decided that you're entitled to look out for number one. There's no perfect path here. I won't even swear you're making the wrong decision. But believe it or not, there are times in this industry when you do need to look out for number one and there are times when you need to shelve your me-first attitude, at least a little, and consider others. Maybe this isn't one of those times. But remember that if you live by the sword, you should know what to expect. The first time you get sick, under-perform, or the firm simply finds someone newer, and better, or who they can just pay less than you - you're going to get shoved out the back door just as fast as you bolted from this one. And don't be surprised when that happens. Good luck.
  40. 8 points
    Just had a thought- I hope OP is not our student!
  41. 8 points
    Why don’t you just take a big step back and realize what you’re saying here. I don’t know the OP and it seems like they might be on the verge of making a bad decision, but if they had already made a decision to go back on their word then they wouldn’t have made a thread. Obviously they want advice, and advice was given. I don’t know if that advice will be followed, but to imply that someone won’t be a good lawyer or won’t be successful in their chosen career path because they are tempted to do something that they think will be better for their career and life then I think what you wrote says a lot more about you then it does about them.
  42. 8 points
    And you literally got 100% of people (who are notorious for usually disagreeing with each other) agreeing on the same "input". You're just choosing to turn a blind eye to it and label it as a debate.
  43. 8 points
    Was offered admission around 10:00am sask time. Will be accepting! 158 lsat, B2: 3.6, strong sask connection. Congrats everyone!
  44. 8 points
    You know, joking aside, I may be harsh sometimes but there's a time and a place. I've swatted at people before who asked for honest advice and then got pissy because they only wanted to hear what sounded good to them. Say what you want about the OP here, but they at least were explicit about seeking encouragement. And you can't blame them for that. So actually, I'm staying out of this. Good luck, OP.
  45. 8 points
    Accepted!!!!!! I am the happiest person alive right now. Still cannot believe it! CGPA 3.84 LSAT 153 and 155 O U was my only choice so I will definitely be attending.
  46. 8 points
    Did you go to U of T for your undergrad? If you did, you should know full well that "fun" is a forbidden word that may not be said within 500 meters of campus. EVER. It's why Robarts has no windows: sunshine gives people hope, and hope is too pedestrian a concept.
  47. 8 points
    I thought it was fun. I loved the new experiences, I met some of the best, amazing friends I’ve ever had and we had good times, I love the intellectual challenge of learning the material and I had great extra-curricular experiences like mooting (and I got to travel and see more of the country) and doing research for profs. I really miss those days. Don’t get me wrong, there were some tough times too, but overall, I loved it.
  48. 8 points
    God help me if my mom is on this forum.
  49. 8 points
    I understand this fear. I remember interviewing at the firm I summered and articled at - I hit it off immediately with the articling student who gave me the tour of the firm. I remember being devastated when I returned the firm to begin my summer term and I found out that he wasn't hired back. All I could think about was how scary that must have been for him - for myself, that was my "worst case" scenario. I think my biggest regret about my summering and articles is that I spent so much time obsessing over hire-back. Man what a waste of time (and anxiety). You see - not being hired back was my ultimate fear, I had no idea how I would deal with such a scenario - but it turns out that when I didn't get hired back the world kept revolving - and I was... fine. Absolutely fine. I mean, it's not like I wasn't hired back because I was "bad" - the firm just didn't have a junior spot in the area that I wanted to practice. I received glowing recommendation letters and senior partners offered to put in calls for me to my firms of choice. Within 1 month of that decision being made I was interviewing at multiple firms on Bay street - I landed a job at an incredible firm the week before my articling term finished. And - this is the most important part - I am SO FREAKING HAPPY where I am! It is the perfect fit for me. I am much happier here than I think I would have ever been at the firm I wanted so desperately to hire me back. During your articles focus on 2 things - learning as much as you possibly can and making sure you have a rock solid reputation. If you do those that you'll be fine (in fact, you'll probably be way more than fine).
  50. 8 points
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